Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Some of the most popular episodes are mentor call episodes and I'd actually love to do more of them. So if you want to be on.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: The next one, send me a message on Instagram today.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: I'm so lucky to have Steena Bachmann here with me. She's a local photographer here where I live in Norway, and we've met a few times, which makes it extra nice to have her on the podcast. She's a studio photographer leaning towards fine art and her problem right now is.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: That she's not making enough money.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: You're listening to Sustainable Photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration and confidence building. I'm Ingvild Kolnes, the host of this podcast, and after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Hi Steena, welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited to talk with you and get to know you better, so maybe you can start by telling us who you are and a bit about your background.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Hi. First of all, so excited to be here and join you in this podcast. Yeah, I'm 35 years old, I live in Norway vanisla with my son and I'm only a part time photographer. I work 100% or full time job besides photography.
Yeah, I guess I've always liked to take pictures and I've always had a camera back when you needed to rewind them and send the film in.
But I guess it was under my education that I really started to enjoy taking pictures. I learned more about the camera and the settings, so when I finished my degree, I figured I need to buy myself a camera. And also in that time, probably because of my age, it was a real baby boom at my job. So I was like, oh, can I photograph your babies? And so I did and it just took off from there really. So started with the newborn and yeah, just kept going.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: That's probably a pretty common way to do it, just kind of getting into it by accident.
[00:02:29] Speaker C: I think so too.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: But can you tell me some more about your favorite kind of sessions?
[00:02:38] Speaker C: If I could choose, I would do a lot more animal sessions. I love photographing animals, but also one year old and family sessions. That's some of my favorites.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: What is it about those that make them your favorites?
[00:02:54] Speaker C: Well, animals. I just love animals. I've always had a dog or other animals and they're just so fluffy and cute and yeah, they photograph really well and it's so fun to give that to the owner. Some people have animals instead of kids and they really love them just as much as anyone would love their babies. I often compare photographing one year olds with animals because it's a lot the same. They do mainly what they want to do and when they're done, they're done.
So, yeah, there's a lot in common between those two.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: So if you think about your favorites, your families and your babies and your pets, what do the people who reach out to you? Not the babies or the pets themselves, but their owners, their parents, their owners, what do they have in common?
[00:03:54] Speaker C: Well, to be honest, after I moved to Christian Town, I haven't had a single booking in animal photography. So I can't really answer that because earlier on, I never thought about dream client. Every client was just this dream client because I didn't have any experience.
Now I think it's probably someone a bit like me, but maybe with more money, more income, and someone who it seems as though a lot of my clients have just recently moved back to Christiansan from somewhere else in the city or in Norway where they have gotten a degree or something like that. And now they're moving home. They are either looking for a place to buy just recently bought their dream house or are building their dream house. So that seems to be one of the and they're my age. They have kids my age or my son's age. So you want any more information about them?
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I do. Because if we're going to find out more about who your dream clients are, have you thought about what they want with their photos? Like, why do they want to come to you as their photographer? Why are they looking for a photographer? To begin with?
[00:05:16] Speaker C: They want to get some family photos and a lot of them are getting kid number two.
Almost everyone has not taken newborn photography or photos with the first one, but the second one they want to get everything with and they want to have wall art or pictures to put up on the wall.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Do you know why they want photos up on their walls?
[00:05:42] Speaker C: I think a lot of them have postponed this a long time. And also something a lot of my clients say is that they are just so happy to finally find a photographer who doesn't shoot, like these light, airy white images or the typical jeans, white shirt family photos.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: So you stand out to them. You're different.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Yeah, my colors are more like earth colors, I guess. And my images are a bit darker. Yeah, I guess I stand out to.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Them because you've told me you get inquiries, but you're not always booking. You get people to come to your website, but then not enough happens from that. Can you tell me some more about that? What do you feel is the issue?
[00:06:33] Speaker C: Well, I feel like my website is almost as if it's made by a 14 year old or maybe even a 14 year old would have made it better than me, to be honest. I want to change it, but I don't know where to begin. I don't know what to do because I don't think it's selling enough. I don't think it's making them, as far as I can see, a lot of my clients or a lot of the visitors of my home page, they go to the main page, obviously, and then they visit one more page, and then they're done. And it's different from person to person what page they go to next, but mainly everybody disappears after one more page.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Okay, no, that makes sense because I guess I should start with asking you what is your goal with your photography business?
[00:07:31] Speaker C: Oh, that's a hard one. In the beginning, I just want to be able to maybe downscale my full time job with some percent, to have more flexibility like everybody else does who starts with photography, and be able to be more with my son and choose more when I'm going to work and when I'm going to have some time off with him.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: That's a good goal.
[00:07:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Not full time photography just now. Maybe in a couple of years, but not now.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: Okay, so to start with, you want to maybe work less at your full time job so that it's a part time job, and replace that income with photography income.
[00:08:17] Speaker D: That's correct.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: And for that to happen, you might need to increase your prices, but you definitely need more clients.
[00:08:25] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: Okay, so we need to figure out how you can get those clients. And to start with, you need to figure out who your clients are, because the way you do things now, you are offering a lot of different things. You're offering different kinds of newborn, pets, families. And I don't think there's anything wrong with offering a lot of different things. But I do think that you might be able to get further if you would find out what all these different people that want to book you have in common. So instead of listing out like, I do this, this, and this, then you can think like, okay, so who are these people? Who are these people that want these things? What do they have in common? And instead of saying, yes, I do these five things, you can say, I do photography for people who are like this. And then it doesn't really matter what they come to you for, so that you can be the right photographer for someone seeking fine art photos that are more dark, more studio portraits in your area for, I don't know, families who are new or just moving back. If you can dig down and you can find out who they really are, then you can talk to those people. Because oftentimes we're so scared of not getting booked that we end up trying to like, oh, I'm so scared of saying that one thing, because what if someone comes across that and they're not like that, so they're going to go the other way and that just ends up with us not booking the ones that are right?
Does that make sense.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:10:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:10:05] Speaker C: And also I really like the idea of removing every on my web page. I have family photographer, newborn photographer, everything listed up. And I like the idea of not listing it up, just writing to the person who visited my website.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Because then you could get clients that come back to you, return clients that come again and again and again without feeling like they belong in a different bracket. They're just coming to you because they want to work with you. Because if you think about who your dream client is, I think no matter what you want to do next, if you want to update your website, for example, because I can tell that you're not really happy with it, it doesn't start with you updating your website. It starts with you deciding who you want to work with. What are your values, what values do you and your dream client have in common? And when I ask you who is your dream client, I want to know more about them than the fact that they are new or just moving back here and buying a new house. I want to know why they want photos. Have they had something? Like, I know you talked about how photos mean a lot to you, like, if you've lost someone, then they become more meaningful. Has that also happened to your dream client? Or is that something they're worried about? Yeah, because that is something you can talk more about, and then you can have a connection with them. So you need to figure out who they are yeah.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: About using it. And I've also been thinking about doing a blog post, because you do a blog post and I've been like, okay, maybe I should talk about the fact that we should just be photographed the way we are, like my sister who died and just embrace life the way we are right now. But then again, I feel like maybe I'm just so scared to use me losing her as something to do, understand yeah. To get clients or use it in the wrong way somehow. So I've written half of it and then just like, no, I need to think more about this before I post anything.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: I understand the feeling and the fear, but if that is something you feel is an important part of your story, then I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing it. But I do think you want to start connecting with your dream client before a blog post. So you want to make sure that you add that into your about page, for example, to make sure that a piece of your story is there and it doesn't have to be more than a sentence. And then you can, for example, link to that blog post so that if someone wants to know more about it, it's there. But in general, you want to have blog posts so that your clients can get inspiration. So that they can learn more about you and the way you do things or so that you can get found organically through Google searches. So you need to think about before you start writing a lot of different blog posts like I've done, you need to think about why you write them so that you're not just doing all this work. And then it's like, oh, that was a waste, so just think about that. But I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the one you're thinking about that might be really a really nice thing. And I also think that if your dream clients have been in that situation that you have, or that that is something they're thinking about and is scared of, I don't think that they would think of that as being like a sales tactic of you using that story.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: No, maybe not. But I'm also like, what if my family sees it and just thinks, like, oh, you use your sister's vet something to book clients, so that's also a part of it.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Would your family think that about you? Or is that just a fear that you have?
[00:14:02] Speaker C: Probably just a fear.
Probably.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I completely understand that. I've had similar thoughts myself. Like, if I share this now, is this going to come across as trying to get likes or sympathy or something like that?
[00:14:22] Speaker C: And that's not my intention at all.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Of course not. Yeah, but I wanted to say that when I am looking at your photos on Instagram, for example, and then when you told me that you were kind of struggling to get in enough clients, but at the same time you want to increase prices, I think that's a good idea. And it sounds very counterintuitive to many because it's like, oh, I'm not getting enough clients, so I definitely can't raise my prices. But you already have a full time job, so really you don't have anything to lose. And if you know that you want to or need to increase your prices anyway, it's better to do it now than to wait. And also, when I look at your photos and when you're describing your client, it sounds to me like they're more of a high end clients rather than that they're someone who you can just you don't have to compete with the other photographers around here because you're not like them. And your clients have the money and are willing to pay. So you should charge more because what you do is very different and unique. So I would embrace that if I were you and just dare to charge more because it's so different. And because what you offer with your wall prints and that fine art feeling and vibe, it's very different. And I think that once you're different and you stand out and you give your clients something that they really want and they can't really get anywhere else, you have a unique opportunity.
[00:15:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I should probably think about it that way. And I should also probably stop giving them so much discount because maybe then.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: Definitely stuff definitely stop giving discounts. I know it's really hard because I feel the same way when it's something that I really want to do. I'm like, I could just do this for free.
But how is that helping? I mean, if you value yourself, you should definitely get paid for what you do. And I think it also if I were to start doing things for free, what does that tell people around me about me? It kind of tells them that I'm not that good, or I don't think I'm that good, which means that they're less likely to pay.
[00:16:41] Speaker C: I feel like every photographer I talk to has this impostor syndrome, and I'm definitely one of those. So, yeah, I question my work all the time and it's like when people are going to pay a lot of money, I see my images with totally different eyes. And I'm so critical of my images, so I need to work on that. But I participated in the Portrait System Awards and every image I participated with got a bronze. And one of my images of my dog actually got to be in the top 20 of every image that was sent in in the Pet category. So my image was actually one of the top 20 images sent in in that category. And it's like 4000 to 6000 images sent in each category. So that's kind of a big thing.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: That's a really big thing.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: Yeah. So I was like, okay, maybe I can justify taking the prices that I do.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's also worth noting that when your clients are willing to pay more, they also trust their photographer more and they're less critical. When I used to charge pretty much nothing, people were so critical. I would get people criticizing my editing style. They would give me like a list before the wedding. Like, these are the images we want.
I've been told that, oh, we got too many images. I've been told, oh yeah, too many images. I should have spent more time editing them. And it's like, oh, I was just trying to be nice and I gave you more. Any possible thing that they can criticize, they will. But as soon as my prices were in the higher range, that stops. There's no more criticism.
[00:18:41] Speaker D: No.
[00:18:42] Speaker C: And that's my experience as well. It's just so hard sometimes to justify taking the prices.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: But you're not taking a price.
[00:18:51] Speaker C: No.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: You're telling people this is what it cost, and it's up to them if they want to pay it or not. You're not doing this to anyone. You're just saying, like, this is what it's going to take for me to spend time away from my child, to spend my time to do this. And it's up to them if they want to pay it or not. That's all it is. You're not forcing them. You're not kidnapping them and saying, like, holding them ransom or anything. It's just an offer. They can take it or leave it.
[00:19:20] Speaker C: That's so true. You just forget it sometimes, I guess.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: I know you do forget it. So I think that's where you need to start. You need to start by thinking about who your dream client is, and then you need to start thinking about, okay, so do I know anyone in my life? Do I have any past clients? Does friends of friends know anyone like that? And then you need to start talking with them and finding out, okay, so what would make this a high end experience for you? What would it take for you to spend this kind of money to get this kind of result? What would you expect when you walk in the door? Would you want, like, a fresh cup of coffee? Would you prefer to sit down in a comfortable sofa while I photograph your child? What is it they want? Do they want the frames or prints delivered to their door? What will it take for them to be willing to pay the amount that you want? What kind of service are they expecting? Which words are they using? Listen to them when they talk and, oh, they're not using the word photograph. They're using the words take pictures. Just listen to all these kinds of phrases and words so that you know what to talk about. And then you can find out more about their stories and why they want to have their photos taken. And you can use that in your marketing. So when you speak to them about their values and you get a real connection with them, that's when the magic starts happening. And that's also when you know what you want and when you know what they want, then you can create a brand that represents that. And that's one of the things that I feel like you're missing. You don't have a brand that speaks out to people. I know you said you were unhappy with your website, and there's nothing there or what's there isn't clear enough. It's not giving a clear enough picture about who you are and what people can expect from you. So that's why I would suggest doing that next, creating a brand that really represents who you are. And once that's in place, that's when you can start making a new website.
[00:21:25] Speaker C: Okay, that sounded because I've listened to a lot of your podcast, and it's like, branding this and branding that, and I'm like, how am I going to figure out what my brand is? How am I going to work with that? I think that's so hard. I mean, dream client and figuring out who they are is hard. But the brand part, I don't know where to start.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: It's like, okay, I can completely understand that. And I would say start with the experience you want to give your clients what feeling do you want to leave them with? How does it feel to work with you? To start with the feelings, and once you know that and you know your values, what's important to you? Then I would honestly consider booking a session with someone who does branding. And I can recommend my branding girl, Danielle. I've had my branding done with her. She does the branding when I do website designs. She's brilliant. So I would definitely book a session with her or someone else that you know, because connecting those dots yourself isn't so easy.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: No, I tried.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: And I completely failed. Because it's different when you see someone else's and you're like, oh, yeah, I can see that this is making sense. I can see you should change that but yourself. That can be really difficult.
[00:22:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I totally agree. It's impossible.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Because a lot of people think that our branding, that's all about having a logo or choosing the right colors, but it's so much more. It's about the way you speak to your clients. It's about the way you behave and how you show up and what experience they have. And then, of course, also what colors and what fonts and the logo and stuff. But there's just so much more on the inside of that, which words you use and how you do things. So it is really important, and some of it is easier to figure out on your own and other things. It's best to get some outside perspective.
[00:23:28] Speaker C: Yeah, sounds like a good plan.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: And when it comes to actually booking more clients, I think that's going to be easier for you when you have a clear brand, because that's going to shine through everything you do. It's going to shine through on your Instagram, it's going to shine through on your website. And I just think it's going to be clearer for people when they come across you that, okay, so this is the right photographer for us, and that's something that you can do straight away start thinking about, okay, so who am I really for? And how can I say that in a sentence? Because the way, for example, your Instagram is now, it says that you're a photographer, but it doesn't say anything about.
[00:24:05] Speaker C: The people who book you.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: It doesn't say who you're for. So that's something that you can say because as photographers, it's so easy to just say, oh, my pictures speak for themselves. Clearly, I'm for someone who wants dark photos from a studio.
[00:24:20] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: But that's not necessarily clear for potential clients. So we need to spell it out for them. So we need to learn to use our words. And Instagram is a good challenge because it's such a short amount of space you have. So it's nice to use that exercise. Like, okay, so how can I make that clear in just a sentence?
[00:24:43] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:24:44] Speaker C: That sounds like a hard homework.
I have no idea the sustainable photography.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Program is back for one whole year. You can join us in learning more about yourself and your business, having accountability to make progress and have someone to ask your questions and share your struggles with. This will be the 6th round of the program and it just keeps getting better. The photographers who join are at all levels though the intention of the program is for photographers who are doing okay to do great. You should consider joining if you know how to take photos but you want more free time, more money, or clients that you enjoy working with even more, or simply because you want a community of photographers cheering you on. Go to Ingridcones.com Sustainability to learn more about the program and to book a call and find out if this is right for you.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: I think you do know though, because you told me, you told me about your clients. So let's talk about it again. Who are you for?
[00:25:51] Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. One thing I didn't mention, I think I forgot to mention is actually almost every one of the clients booking with me are obviously female. But also they work in health section health care. Almost everyone is a nurse or something like that. So that's something I found interesting. And nobody knows, like they don't know each other, so that's interesting.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: That's really interesting.
[00:26:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: And it's also people who work in healthcare, they have to be quite social, they work together and stuff. So maybe that's also a good place for you to take advantage of the fact that they speak with others who might be interested. So that you could maybe set up like a referral scheme or something like that where okay, tell a friend and when you come back you'll get a print or I don't know, something like that. It doesn't have to be that obvious, but something that encourages people to talk about you, which they maybe do anyway, but there might be more opportunities there.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: Well, that's not a dumb idea. And also I know people saying talk to your clients or send them like questionnaires afterwards, but it's so hard. I feel like I don't want to bother them.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: But what if it's not a bother because I've worked with people, different kinds of services where I've wanted them to ask me how my experience was. Maybe because I had suggestions of things that they could improve because I wanted to use them again and there was something lacking. Maybe because I wanted to tell them that I was happy, maybe just because I wanted them to care. Because if you ask them how was that experience for you, then we're showing that we care. It's not because we're bothering them. Could that be a perspective that you could maybe consider?
[00:27:48] Speaker C: Absolutely, yeah.
No, that's not dumb, that's pretty smart.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And also if you don't have asking for testimonials as part of your workflow right now, that's something to be added in as well. So if you ask them how things were and they reply that they were really happy and everything was great, then okay, do you mind leaving a review in this place then giving them a link to your Google business profile or something like that?
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I should probably do that. I have asked for reviews earlier on and I got a few, so it works. It's just really hard to do.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: If you can kind of automate the process and just make it like a default thing, then it's not something you have to spend that mental energy of, like, oh no, now I have to ask about this thing. It's just like something you do because there are so many things that we have to do in our business that just drains us. And if there's something we can do to make it easier, for example, just automating stuff, then that's really helpful, having template emails that you can just copy, paste and then just send so you don't have to think about like, oh no, how's this going to sound? Because it's just done.
[00:29:07] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:29:08] Speaker C: So if I may ask, how long do you wait before you question or reach out to your customers after a photo shoot or you mainly do weddings.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: I wait until they've had some time to review things. So maybe a couple of weeks. I guess it's maybe a little bit different if people are on a honeymoon or something like that. But yeah, I would probably wait a little bit. I don't think I would include it in the same email where they first get the images because then they wouldn't have time to digest it. And also if you ask them to do too many things in one email, then it's a bit like, yeah, they're not going to see all of it. So one thing for email, that's a good thing to remember.
Absolutely.
[00:29:57] Speaker C: Now when clients book with me, I send them a contract form where they can agree or disagree with me using their images and I send them a billing for the session fee. And I've noticed that it's a lot for a lot of my clients, they don't even open it the same day because it's just like it's too much going on.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I would probably do one thing at a time. I understand that the two forms might go together, but I actually don't ever send out the invoice until I've got the contract back because then it's just one thing instead of two. You'll see the one thing and then you won't see the other. And it's a hassle for us if we have to follow up, and it's a hassle for them if they feel like we're nagging them.
So one thing at a time.
[00:30:50] Speaker C: I'll keep that in mind.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: But yeah, I understand because I know you said that you want to make money in your business and you have quite limited time and you feel like. You have to do everything. And I completely understand that feeling. But, for example, when I suggested to book a session with Danielle, for example, or someone to do your branding for you or help you, I know that it can feel hard to spend money, but at the same time, it's going to be hard for you to book clients when things aren't in order. Because if you always do everything yourself, that's the kind of thing that shows. And then it's going to be like, why should someone spend money on your business when you are too afraid to do it yourself? Which is, again, completely understandable and the way I've done things for the longest time. But I can promise you that everything changed pretty much the moment I decided to invest and do things the right way. So it does make a huge difference when you're not trying to do everything yourself because you can't. It's not possible to be the best photographer and the best branding designer and the best website designer and be the best mother and in your full time job, it's not possible to do all of it really well. So you have to kind of choose what you want. But I understand it's difficult, but it is a little bit of a chicken and egg situation. Like, what's going to come first? More clients to pay for it or yeah, more money.
[00:32:18] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I just wish I had this knowledge when I lived in heaven. I got so many inquiries I had to decline, which obviously should have told me that I needed to increase my pricing, but at least I had income. God, I wish I just knew that back then and could spend some money on myself and my sort of education in photography. But yeah, I guess a lot of people do like us.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And when you move to a new location, things are different, people are different, and it takes some time to adjust. You have to be like, okay, so what do the people here want? And that's why it's important not just for you to think about who do I want to work with, but actually go out and speak with some of them and see, I think they want this, but when I talk with them, it sounds like they want this. So that you also might have to adapt some things. And sometimes it's a matter of just the way you communicate and sometimes it's the pictures you show. Like, I don't know if actually in all your sessions you take these photos that no one ever sees, but that's the ones they really want to see. I'm not sure if that applies to you, but it does apply to some people. So it's just important to not just guess, but to do some research and find out the truth. The scary truth.
[00:33:41] Speaker C: Yeah, the scary truth.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Okay, so I've given you some suggestions of what to do to think about who you want to work with, think about your values, talk to people, do your branding and then your website and online presence. Do you have any questions for me.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: When people take contact or fill out my form to book me or question me about my pricing, do you usually call them or do you write them an answer?
[00:34:11] Speaker B: I have a bit of what's it called? Phone phobia.
[00:34:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: I hate talking on the phone and if someone calls me, I don't even answer. I have my phone on, like silent, so I would not phone someone. But I do know several photographers who always do as like a default and they do really well when it comes to that. So I think it's a matter of who your clients are and maybe also what you tell them is going to happen. If you say, fill in this form and I'll phone you, and if that works for you, then keep doing that, but if not, then maybe test it and see how it goes. Because everyone's different, that's why it's hard to say like, oh, this is right or this is wrong, but I would test it and see what works better for you. What have you done so far?
[00:34:59] Speaker C: I have answered them per email or whatever, and I answer pretty fast because I don't get a lot of inquiries. I'm not that person who says, oh, I'm so sorry, you had wait, I'll answer everybody on Sunday.
That's not me. And I also think like but that's just me. I'm a single mom and I remember when I was selling my house in Heavy Sun, my realtor called me like past ten at night and I was like, I was so mad. You don't call single mom or mom of a baby at that hour of yeah. And I'm also kind of like the person that I would rather have a text or an email, but that's actually.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: A good idea to text someone. I do that. If I get an inquiry, I will immediately send a text. If I remember, I'll send a text and I'll say, I just got your inquiry, I'll reply soon, but I was just really excited to hear from you, so keep your eyes open for the email. So I always ask for both email and phone just in case one of them doesn't work. And after I started sending text messages, that has really increased how many calls I book. And I'm not sure if this would apply to you, but maybe but I include a video message in my replies to give it more of a personal touch and they can see who they're dealing with, so that's what I do. That's also worked really well. More people reply.
[00:36:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I would imagine the one with the sending them a message after, yeah, I'm going to take that one and imply it.
[00:36:39] Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah, see, just pay attention to how it goes because again, people are different and what works for me might not work for you, but it's worth a shot. It's a simple add on.
[00:36:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't mind sending a text.
[00:36:54] Speaker D: That's okay.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: And it's something personal, it's something that's directly into their hand, probably, that they can just see right away. And it's really short and it's not like a long email that they have to reply to.
[00:37:06] Speaker C: And also when I reply to my clients, if they contact me by form, I cannot reply to that form. So I'm replying by another email which probably sends it right to the garbage bin.
[00:37:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point.
[00:37:24] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:37:27] Speaker C: I think it's going to be helpful.
[00:37:29] Speaker D: At least try.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: Yeah, but do you follow up with your clients? What happens? Okay, tell me, so what happens? You send them a reply and then what happens?
[00:37:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I wait for them to answer me.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: And if they don't answer you, then.
[00:37:46] Speaker C: That'S a missed client.
[00:37:49] Speaker B: Okay, this is a big chance for improvement. You should always follow up.
[00:37:55] Speaker D: Okay?
[00:37:56] Speaker B: Yeah, so always. So after a few days, you can just send them another message and say like, hey, I know you were interested in studio sessions. Here is a guide for what to wear at a studio session. Or here's a blog post on how you can use the photos afterwards and nothing else, just like something of value. A video that shows them. Like, this is a behind the scenes video of the studio so you can know what to expect. Something like that, just something short and sweet and quick. And then after a few more days, then you can reply and say, hey, did you see my last message?
Do you want to book a time? And then if you still don't hear back, you do the same thing again?
Oh, yeah, again. And if you don't hear back at the end, you'll say like, hey, I'm assuming that you're no longer interested and that's it, nothing more, just like one sentence and you're going to see a big change in how many people get back to you and book and at the very least tell you that they found someone else.
Makes a huge difference.
[00:38:56] Speaker C: Yeah, because I missed that one. I'm so sick and tired of the people who make me spend a lot of time answering questions and then just despair. It's not like, oh yeah, you're not the photographer for me or, you're too expensive, or, I found another one.
[00:39:13] Speaker D: They just ghost you.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I batch record everything I do. So before this call, I did an interview about Ghosting. Oh, you can hear that one soon as well, so stay tuned for that one. But one of the key things to remember is one thing is to follow up and ghosting is not going to go away. It's just how people are now. So I think it's important that you find a way to spend less time answering emails. Have some templates made so that you can just copy, paste and make a good FAQ section on your website so that people can be directed there so that it's easy for you to create the emails that you need to. That is pretty important, actually.
[00:39:58] Speaker C: Yeah. So a lot of the questions I get is about my pricing. A lot of people find it hard to figure out what my prices actually are. Myself, I find it easy, but that's because I wrote it, I guess. But I'm like if I just send them back to the page and if I were to have FAQ on my pricing page, I'm just afraid that they would just disappear. But then again, follow up, as you said, I guess.
[00:40:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think when someone asks you question about your pricing and your pricing is clearly stated, it can be one of two things. Maybe it isn't as clearly stated as you think, or they're just trying to get a better deal. And if we ask the question, then maybe so what you can do is try to explain your prices as if I was an idiot and then have that as a template email that you could send or consider. Should I maybe write something like this on my website to make it even easier to explain? Like, am I explaining my process step by step? If you have a session fee, first you need to pay the session fee. Then we do the session, and then you come back for an IPS in person sales appointment or whatever you want to call it. And then you choose what photos you want and then they're delivered to you. Like, you make it really easier for them and break it down. Because we think that things are really obvious because we know how it's done, but sometimes we need to just explain it more clearly because people feel reassured when there's no confusion. They're like, oh, this is laid out really easily, and step by step, then I can do it. Just don't make too many steps.
[00:41:44] Speaker D: Okay, that's good. Yeah.
[00:41:46] Speaker C: I'm probably going to start there. That's one easy thing to fix, I think.
[00:41:52] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:41:52] Speaker B: Did this overwhelm you or are you going to be able to move forward with the tasks?
[00:41:59] Speaker C: I'm very happy this is recorded so that maybe I can listen to it later on because I'm not going to remember this, but yeah, I think it's doable. I think maybe if I get some help with branding, that will maybe loosen something up for me or help me a lot. And yeah, you have given me some good points to just follow up. I've never done that and asked my clients afterwards, how is this? Yeah, no, I think it's going to be interesting from now on.
[00:42:32] Speaker D: Okay, good.
Yeah.
[00:42:35] Speaker B: Okay. I'm excited to see how this works for you and what you decide to implement and what might be too tricky. But yeah, I can definitely recommend Danielle, as I said, I'm pretty sure she was in my podcast, episode number four, and she will also be in the episode airing before this one. So since I do interview a solo, every other one, she'll be in the one two weeks before this one. So you can go back a couple of weeks and listen to what she has to say about branding. So she helped me with my branding, and I'm really happy with when I work with her, along with my website and design clients, people say that it's like she's reading their minds. So that's what you want, someone who can just tell that this is what you need.
[00:43:21] Speaker C: Absolutely. Because I feel like I'm just walking around blind in dark, not knowing where to start. So that would be great if she could read my mind. That would be awesome.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Because when you have a professional brand, that's going to change a lot for you. But it does start with your own things. It does start with you figuring out, but who am I and what do.
[00:43:42] Speaker C: I want and who are my clients?
[00:43:44] Speaker B: You need to know that.
[00:43:45] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:43:46] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: It is work to have a business.
[00:43:48] Speaker C: That's how it is.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: But this stuff can make it a lot easier for you moving forward. So instead of being so worried about where's my next clients going to come from, this can really help you with that.
[00:44:00] Speaker D: Sounds good. Okay.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: I don't want to give you any more to do, which is probably what's going to happen if we keep talking.
Yeah, probably start with what you've got now. And I hope to get an update as to how things are going in a little bit from now.
[00:44:15] Speaker C: Hopefully I will be able to give you that.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: Perfect.
And if the listener wants to follow you and see your gorgeous photos on Instagram, where do they go?
[00:44:26] Speaker C: They can search for Siena Bachman's photo or yeah, Siena Bachmann. And you will probably find me.
[00:44:33] Speaker D: Perfect. Thank you.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: I will be sure to link to that in the show notes. Thank you.
[00:44:38] Speaker C: This has been so much fun.
[00:44:40] Speaker B: Yeah, this is really great. Thank you so much.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: Go to englisholness.com call to book a call with me to find out if the sustainable photography program is right for you.
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