Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Next year, Jan Joseph is coming to Norway to join the study abroad trip Kristen Sweden and I are hosting. I wanted to meet her beforehand and learn more about what she does, which is a mix of lifestyle and documentary photography.
You're listening to Sustainable Photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration and confidence building. I'm Ingrid Culleness, the host of this podcast. And after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
Hi, Jan. Welcome to Sustainable Photography. I am so excited to have you HIV.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. Super excited to be here.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Yeah, me too. But I was thinking to start with, you can introduce yourself and share how you became a lifestyle photographer because that is really interesting for people to know.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
So my name is Jen Joseph. I live in Washington DC. I've lived here for about twelve years now. I was born and raised in New Jersey, but moved down here about twelve years ago for work. I am a social worker by training and have done a lot of mostly macro level big picture work, but a little bit of everything in there. And so my path to becoming a lifestyle photographer has had sort of like stops and starts in that I really sort of first fell in love with photography way long time ago. In middle school I filmed photography elective class and just I don't know, when I picked up that camera for the first time, I just sort of felt at home. And so it's always something that I've been really drawn to and so I've done it on and off over the years. But life gets busy and I didn't always have time to dedicate to photography. And then the pandemic happened. So like everyone I slowed down and I had so much more time to think about what I wanted to be doing. I had time to devote to hobbies and also time to sort of think about what I wanted to prioritize in my life. And so one of the first things I realized is that I wanted to pick photography back up and so I had a really old camera at that point, so the first thing I did was upgrade. My camera started just sort of shooting again regularly. And through that I realized that I felt very drawn to photographing people and more specifically families. There's just something about capturing those relationships in an authentic way that absolutely lit me up. And so I took lots and lots of classes just to sort of get reacquainted and brush up on my technical skill and also learn everything that I could learn about the different genres of family photography and different ways of documenting families. And so really pretty quickly after getting back into it, I realized that this was something that I wanted to do professionally as a business. And that sort of goes back to that, to what I was saying about shifting priorities. The other thing I realized is I wanted to spend as much time as I could doing things that I love and minimize the amount of time that I spent on everything else. And so as I was sort of, like, picking up the photography again and really getting going, I started a business and over the past three, four years have started to build that out. And that is my sort of long path to family photography.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's really interesting how sometimes it just happens. It wasn't what you started out to do, but then you had that interest and it just came into place. Everything just came together.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I knew right away, like, oh, I've got to do something with this. I really, really love this. Yeah.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: And you've decided to specialize in lifestyle photography, and that is something that you hear thrown around lifestyle photography, elopement photographer. So what do you think of as the difference? And if you were to kind of explain even further how you would categorize yourself, what would you say?
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. That's such a good question. So when people think of family photography, I think that the first thing that probably comes to mind is portrait photography, right? Like what I think of as traditional, where the families are posed, they're camera aware, meaning they're looking at the camera, they're smiling. That's sort of like one style of family photography that's been popular for a long time. Often the first thing that comes to mind for people, the sort of two other most prominent styles, I would say are lifestyle photography and documentary photography. And I fall somewhere in between lifestyle and documentary, which I'll talk about more in a minute. But I think of lifestyle as real life, but, like, just a little bit idealized, meaning that families are pictured interacting with each other and maybe doing things that they love to do together every day. But the photographer is still involved in sort of directing what that session looks like and the activities. And there is a little bit of posing, but really sort of more interactive, and the focus is on the people and on the story as well. And then with documentary photography, that is really sort of where the photographer gets to be a silent observer. So sort of in the background, really not engaging with the family, providing any prompting or direction at all, but watching, taking in what's happening, anticipating when there's going to be a moment that you want to capture and really sort of using that to tell a story of a family's. It could be an activity together, it could be a day together, it could be a longer period of time. But that's sort of the key, is that the photographer is just sort of like there in the background documenting and.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: You find yourself somewhere in between those two.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah, I think I live somewhere in the middle. I love both of those styles. And so I find that I incorporate elements of both into my sessions when I'm working with families. And some of that also will depend on the family and sort of what they're looking for and what the goals are for their session. But when I say I live in the middle, what I mean is that I'll often start the session with a little bit of sort of like light prompting light posing light direction. So I might suggest an activity that is something that the family loves to do together. Or if we're outside, I'll suggest a game that they can engage in together that will help them interact sort of in a natural way as I'm taking photos. And I might go and repose or reposition sort of like gentle adjustments. But then I'm also, in between those moments, really sort of watching closely how the family is interacting with each other, seeing what the relationships are, what the little sort of gestures and interactions and body language is like, and trying to anticipate when those unscripted moments are going to happen too. So I can be ready to capture those. And I think that those in between moments are really when a lot of the magic happens.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I can relate to that from weddings and elopements where you have those perfect moments, which is what you think you want, and then it's the in between ones when they're just walking from one place to another or just kind of talking together and laughing. And those are like, at least my favorite moments and my favorite photos usually, because it's just something so natural about it.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's just like magical and authentic and so natural. Just really love those.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Is that what made you end up at that specific place between those two different styles? Or how did that happen?
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I think what drew me to this sort of like, middle ground between these two styles is that I'm really drawn to authenticity in photographs and in storytelling. And I think of myself as a recovering perfectionist. And I've come to this place now where I really can appreciate real, and I think that real is better than perfect. And that's sort of one of my philosophies as I'm photographing families. Because I think, at least in my own personal experience, when I look back on my daughter's childhood growing up and all the things that we've done together, I want to be able to see some of those real moments and the funny things that happened and just sort of everyday interactions rather than the perfection. And so just looking at the work of lots of different lifestyle and documentary family photographers, what stood out to me was absolutely that authenticity and being able to capture a feeling and a memory rather than just an image.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But do you think there's anything because I see that a lot of photographers offer lifestyle photography or even documentary photography. Maybe not as many, but definitely I see both of them.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: But do you have any tips or.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Any ideas of what it would take to get those moments that you think that your clients want?
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think the first thing is really understanding as much as you can each family that you're working with, even before you get to the session. And I'll talk about what happens in the session in a minute, but having things as part of your preseason workflow, like a questionnaire where you're getting a chance to ask the family, like, well, who's going to participate in the session? Tell me about each person, tell me how old the kids are, what do you like to do together? What makes you laugh? What are your hopes and goals for the session? How do you want to use the photos? I ask all of those kinds of questions because I want to go in with sort of some framework of who the family is, who they are, and if I know from asking those questions that one of their favorite things to do is laugh together, then I'm going to make sure to incorporate that into the session. And then the other thing, just in terms of being able to capture those really authentic moments in session, is being able to really slow down and just sort of tune into what's going on and observe. I think taking that time to really observe the family, watch the interactions, not feel, I guess, pressured to sort of brush through and get certain shots, but know that it's okay to sort of watch as you're starting your session and observe. And then as you do that, you'll start to see those authentic moments and interactions and know what it is that you want to capture.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. That makes a lot of sense because when you first come to a family to do their session, at least for me, having my photos taken, it's really uncomfortable. I always get really nervous and I get awkward. And if it's a family you've just met, it's a new client. How can you make sure that they're comfortable with you? How can you build trust to make sure that they are who they are and that they're not feeling like they have to perform in some way for you to get your photos?
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Such a good question and such a relatable feeling. I've had my own family photos done twice in the past year. And even as someone who does this professionally, I get those butterflies being in front of the camera. It's like, oh, what do I do now? And so I think the biggest thing, it's a little bit different for me, what I do in home versus if we're at a location. But either way, one of the first things that I'll do before we start taking pictures is just take some time to talk to everyone. So meet everybody, get their names and then I'll start just asking sort of questions to get to know each person. And also I find that that starts to put people at ease. Because if I'm asking questions, just to try and get to know folks and learn about what they do and what they like and how long they've lived. Here and those sorts of things, then you start to forget a little bit about those nerves that come with the session and ease into the conversation. And it also just sort of is helpful in starting to build rapport with everyone. The other thing that I'll do, like say if I'm photographing a family in home, a lot of times with little kids, if they're a little bit more outgoing, they'll invite me to play for a little bit or they'll want to show me their room or something to that effect. And so I'll always take some time to do that. Number one, because it's fun, but two, it's a good way to get to know the kids and get them comfortable before we start the session. And so they're going to be nerves no matter what. That's normal and it's natural, but just taking a little bit of time to ease into it and have a conversation and get to know each other as people before we dive in I find is really helpful.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Do you think that you need more time to do this kind of photography rather than if you are a traditional family photographer who were focused more on the camera awareness style photography? I mean, you take time to get to know people, so surely that must either eat up from your camera time or you would have to add on time. What's been your experience there?
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's such a good question. I think in some respects, yes, it does sort of change the way that you're approaching the session and the amount of time that it takes. Because I imagine that as a photographer using a more traditional style for the family, they are just sort of being directed the whole time. And so there's a little bit less of a need to let go and interact with each other if someone is photographing you, which can feel like an unnatural thing to do. And so it does add some time into the session. But that's also kind of like part of my workflow. I am typically pretty fast when I'm going through a session and so usually all of that can happen within an hour. But if we go over by a little bit, that's okay too.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: Okay, so an hour is usually fine for you to both build that trust and also get the shots that you're hoping for.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: Typically, yeah.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Wow, okay. That sounds impressive to me. So that's great. Yeah, in terms of going to because this is something, again, that I've heard from so many people that I know that do more lifestyle photography and they do in home sessions, is that not everyone has a photography pretty home.
So how can you deal with that? How do you deal with maybe the lack of lighting, maybe small windows, maybe it's just too dark? How can you make sure that you can get good photos at people's homes?
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that's probably one of the top questions that I get. And also, I'm sure one of the top worries for people when they're thinking about doing a session at home is like, oh no, I don't have this perfect looking house, or my house is too small, too dark, too whatever it is. And one of the first things that I will share with people just to sort of put them at ease, but also is information, if it is something they want to do, is you absolutely do not need a picture perfect house to have wonderful in home photos. What you need is a couple of good light sources. And so if they've got a window or two that gets good light, a door that I can open up to get good light, we can work with that. And then the other thing is that when I do in home sessions, which I love to do, they're probably my favorite kind of session, I think, because people are sort of most at ease and most natural in home. But when I do that kind of session, my focus is really on the family and their connection and their interaction with each other less than it is on the house in the background and kind of displaying that part of it. And so that comes through in the photos as well. The other thing I'll share is people will sort of reorganize and clean up a little bit, but I don't need people and don't want people to feel like they have to do some big overhaul or move a lot of things around before an in home session because a lot of that we can do together. When I first get there, I want to walk around the house together a little bit just to get a sense of what locations the client had in mind and also see what I see. Like maybe there is an architectural element in the house that I would love to incorporate or there's something that just wouldn't jump out that could be great for photos. And so as we move around to those different locations, I will help to sort of shift things, clear things as needed. So I think the biggest thing is, one, you don't need a perfect house. Two, focus on these few things. Three, I will help you.
[00:18:12] Speaker C: Okay, perfect.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: That's very clear.
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What about you yourself? Are you good at documenting your own life.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: I love documenting my family's life. It's hard to say whether or not I'm good at it. It's tough because with a preteen now almost teen, she'll be 13 next month, she doesn't always want to be photographed, and so I'll try to respect that and also sometimes doesn't have the patience for me to slow down and take photographs. And so I've got to be sort of creative in how I'm documenting her life. But it is definitely something that is important to me and that I try to do, especially if we're going out and having some kind of adventure together or unique experience. We love to travel and love to just go out and do things together. And so it is really important to me to be able to document that.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure. Do you have any advice for others who feel like they're busy spending their time photographing other people's lives and then they end up not really having any of their own?
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah, so a couple of things. One, I can't even remember where this quote originated, but one thing that I heard just sort of repeatedly that really is true is the best camera is the one that you have with you.
And so you don't feel like you always need to have your big camera on hand and be ready to do all of that. If all you have is your phone, fine, pull out your phone, snap the picture. If you have a camera that you can just sort of bring around with you in your day to day, then do that too, because you never know when those moments are going to happen. That's going to be something that you want to document. And then the other thing that I always try to keep in mind is what's the story that I want to tell with the photo? And so just sort of like having that in the back of my mind as we're going throughout the day is what's the overall story either throughout the day or that I'm trying to tell in this one picture.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good idea. That's a great tip. Yeah, absolutely. Because so often it's like, oh, no, I didn't bring my camera. Then I've missed this opportunity to take a good photo. And it's not really true because you need your good camera if you're going to blow something up really big or do major editing to it. But if it's for you to remember, then your phone can do a lot of great things.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. And I've been in that spot for sure where I'm kicking myself for not having brought my camera somewhere to capture some great moment and then settle down. You have your phone, take the picture, still get a great photo this way.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: And when it comes to the post processing and all the other stuff involved in lifestyle and documentary work, how can you handle that side of it? To preserve the integrity of the family's life that you've just been documenting.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah, so I really enjoy editing, even though it can be time consuming.
There are a lot of things that go into it, but I enjoy it because for me, it is just another part of the creative process where I'm getting to sort of tell this story that I'm wanting to tell, not only in terms of which photos I select from the session, but also how I edit them. So then in terms of preserving the authenticity of the moments, I find that I use sort of a light touch when it comes to editing. I'm doing a little bit to it to just sort of get the photo to the specifications that I want. So I like images to be a little bit on the darker side. I like things to be kind of contrasty. And so maybe I'll add that I'll do any corrections that I need to do. And then I also like to finish with a sort of matte finish because it gives the image to me a more sort of dreamy feel and makes it feel like this cozy memory, which is what I'm going for in preserving these moments for families. And so those are some of the things that I have in mind as I'm editing, is wanting to keep it as close to the authentic moment as possible. But those kinds of little enhancements can make a big difference.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And earlier you said that in home sessions were your favorites. And sometimes you still go out and take pictures in other kinds of locations. But how do you decide on where to go? Or do you have any location scouting tips? Do you check with the client what they want? Do they do that part of it? How does that work?
[00:23:14] Speaker B: All of the above.
One of the sort of really great tips I learned from one of my photography mentors who I adore was the value of just sort of getting a few locations in each category. Like, I have two to three urban locations. I have two to three locations that are in nature. And that way I really know kind of every element of the location. I know the textures, the backdrops, the architectural elements, what the light looks like at different times of day. And that sort of speeds up my ability to be able to work through the session in a way that I hope will achieve the results that I'm going for. And so I have those locations sort of in my back pocket. I do ask every family on their booking questionnaire what they want in terms of the location, whether they want the session to be in home or on location, and if they want it to be on location, would they like it to be in an urban setting or in nature? And then I'll share with them a blog post that I wrote just sort of as a guide to my favorite locations where I like to do sessions, all of that. To say I won't rule out if they've got some other place that's really special to them. Certainly I'll go and I'll photograph in that location, but just sort of having those places that I really know as my go to is very helpful in being able to just sort of get through the workflow efficiently.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great tip to have some in your back pocket that you can just pull from when you need them, instead of having to do that location scouting work every single time.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Great. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: So one of the things that I feel I learn the most from is making mistakes, messing up in some ways. Have you had any challenges that you've had to deal with? Are there any things that you feel like you've learned from that you can.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: Share with us a million challenges and mistakes, and you just kind of have to embrace it because that's how you learn. But I think the biggest challenge in terms of not only being a photographer in this kind of genre for families, but in starting and operating a business overall, is thinking about sort of how big of a job this is and how many of us have to, at first manage a lot of it on our own. So I think of it kind of in this way. If I offered you a job and in the job description, it said that you were responsible for website design and maintenance, SEO, writing, blog posts, marketing, accounting contracts, bookings, client communication, editing, album design, and photography, you would maybe not take the job because the range of responsibilities is so big. But that is something that a lot of us, first starting out, have to take on. All of that. What I think can be a mistake is hanging on to all of those things for too long.
So figuring out what are the parts of this that I like to do and I'm good at doing and want to hang on to, and what are the parts that I don't care that much about doing on my own and am okay with outsourcing or know that I can't really do. So, for example, I took on pretty much all of this at first, but very quickly knew accounting and taxes. I can't do that. I need to outsource that one. Also knew SEO. I have the self awareness to know that I have no idea what I'm doing there, and so knew that was something where I needed to bring in someone to help me. And I have learned so much and feel like I can do that a little bit more competently now. But I think that's sort of a big one. And that's something that I hear a lot from others in our community is that can end up actually holding you back or slowing you down if you're holding on to too many of those things for too long.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it's something that small creative business owners do way too much. Like thinking that, oh, I have to do it because it's my business, and then we end up doing all the things that is completely unrelated to what we originally wanted to do. And I think that is part of what it just steals so much energy and time when you're doing so much of the things that you don't want to do and you don't really know how. Because if you're going to learn a completely new thing from scratch, then that's going to eat up a lot of time that you should be spending out there in the world doing your creative thing. That is actually also the thing that brings in the money.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: But when it comes to being a lifestyle photographer, marketing is a huge piece of that. Kind of like we just touched on as well, that there are so many things involved in being a photographer and you have to market your business because you have to get new clients. What has been your most efficient way of getting new clients in the door?
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So this is something just, honestly, that I'm still figuring out and working on and learning what are going to be the best ways to do this over the long term. But starting out word of mouth actually was really helpful in getting started. And so I photographed families of a few friends and then started photographing some people from work and ended up getting really like a sizable number of new clients coming in that way. And then what I started working on next was trying to ensure that people who are looking for a family photographer in DC, particularly looking for someone with the kind of style that I use, are able to find me. And so I've invested a lot of time over the past year in SEO, starting with rebuilding my website. I mentioned SEO is one of the first things where I knew, like, I need to bring someone in to help me because I do not know what I'm doing and I need to learn. And so that's another area where I've invested a lot and I think that that is incredibly important in terms of getting yourself out there, helping people find you. And then the last piece is just trying to share my work out when and where I can, and so sharing out on my social channels and kind of directing that back to my website as well. So those are the things that have sort of been working for me so far.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a good idea to outsource what you can instead of, as we talked about before, trying to do all the things yourself. And for many, SEO can do so many great things. So I think that makes a lot of sense. And I also know that it can take some time before you know what's working and what's not. So it's great that you're trying some different things before you know what to focus the most of your energy and time on.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I think also agility in marketing is important. It's okay to try something, and then if it's working, fantastic. Double down on that. If it's not working, that's okay to stop and switch your focus to something else.
[00:31:00] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Do you have any personal favorite stories about people you've photographed or something where you've seen how much influence and impact your photos have had on people?
[00:31:13] Speaker B: So one of my favorite experiences that I've had so far is there was this family that I worked with over the last year, and I photographed them three times. So the first time was an in home maternity session. The next time was right after their baby was born. I did a fresh 48 in the hospital for them. And then maybe about six weeks later, I went back to their house and did a newborn session. And this was their third baby, two older kids. And so when I got to the house for the newborn session and was kind of getting settled in, the oldest child, little girl, came up to me and gave me a big hug and said, Hi, I missed you. And it was just such a sweet and genuine and wonderful moment. And it was a nice reminder that in addition to being there to document and help people remember these really important times in their lives, we're also forming relationships and leaving impressions. And that's something that I love, too, is getting to meet really wonderful people and forming relationships and making connections with my clients families.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Oh, that's so nice. So nice that she missed you.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: It's really sweet.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Have you seen that there are any changes in trends over the years? Have you seen that there are things that have shifted from when you started till now? And I realized that documentary photography is probably a lot of the same because you're not really supposed to interact or do anything, but you also do kind of a lifestyle hybrid. So maybe you've noticed something changing.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: Honestly, and this is actually one of the things that I appreciate about these genres of photography, is that it's not particularly trendy in that the focus is on the people and the relationships. And because of that, lifestyle photos, documentary photos, photos that are somewhere in between, often end up being pretty timeless in terms of how they look. And so that's I don't know, it's just something that I really like about it.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I can completely understand that, that it's something that's timeless, something that you'll always appreciate, maybe. Have you found any differences in terms of how many people contact you? Is it something because at least over here it used to be something not really heard of because if you wanted to go to a photographer, it would be like the post looking into the camera, smiling kind of photos. But now it's changed and a lot more people want that kind of authentic style where you're living your life and having that documented. Have you seen any of those kinds of trends of people being more interested?
[00:34:05] Speaker B: Yeah, so I guess I've seen a good number of people coming in who are, I guess, interested in and open to being documented in an authentic way, in addition to maybe some of the more traditional look and feel. But it's absolutely my favorite thing when people come in just sort of seeking that authenticity and wanting to document the sort of feeling of what it's like for them to be a family together and document and remember those moments. And so as people are becoming sort of more aware of different styles and that there are lots of options, it's nice and kind of rewarding to see people coming in, wanting that and seeking that.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So if someone's been listening now and they're thinking, oh, this sounds really interesting, I want to do more documentary work, I want to do more lifestyle work, do you have any tips and advice on how they can get started or if they already have a lifestyle photography business, how they can do even better?
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of getting started, I think two things. One is there are so many good resources out there to get acquainted with different approaches to lifestyle photography, documentary photography, I talk about those two genres, but there are so many different kind of sub approaches, even within. So I think starting there just to learn about different ways to do it and see what feels right for you in terms of approach. And then the other thing, I think is getting out there and doing it in terms of being able to practice on family, friends, your own family, putting out model calls to be able to practice with others, but just trying things out so that you can get to a place of feeling sort of natural and able to move through the session without thinking about it quite as much. So I think those are a couple of tips I have for getting started. One, just sort of get out there, study, see what feels right to you. And two, go out and do it and practice and see what you like, what you don't like.
[00:36:25] Speaker A: Perfect. I love that. That's great. So in just over a year from now, you're going to come to Norway and hang out with me and Kristen Sweding.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: So excited.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Me too. At the study abroad workshop that we're having here. And I can't wait. And if someone's listening and they want to hang out with Jen, that's the perfect place to come and meet her.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: Yes, join us.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: Yeah, join us. But that is over a year from now. So if someone wants to hang out with you a bit sooner than that, where can they go?
[00:36:53] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So the probably like fastest and easiest place to find me is on my Instagram and it's just Jen, elopement photographer, all one word on there. I love connecting with other photographers, love to chat, so seriously, do not hesitate to reach out. You can also find me through my website, jenjosephotography.com. Again, all one word. So those are the two easiest places to find me.
[00:37:21] Speaker C: Perfect.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: I'll be sure to link to those places in the show notes so that you're easy to find. But thank you so much Jen. This was great. And I feel like I've learned so much about lifestyle photography, documentary photography, and to me that's my favorite kind of way of family photography. I think it's just so valuable to have those authentic moments documented for the future. So I think you're doing a great job.
[00:37:45] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Engel and this was really a fun conversation and appreciate the time. Thank you so much.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: This talk with Jen inspired me to end this talk with Jen with a conversation between Kristen's meeting and me, where we talk about her study abroad trips and especially the upcoming trip to Norway, which we're hosting together. We'd love to meet you there.
[00:38:09] Speaker C: So if y'all have been listening for a while, you probably heard us talk about study abroad workshops, which are the workshops that we do multiple times a year in different places all over the world. Each one has a different theme to it. Sometimes it's just for wedding photographers, sometimes it's for all creatives. And so next year we're doing one in Italy, one in Turkey, and then one in Norway, all in 2024. So today we're taking a little time to highlight one of those trips and today we're going to talk about the Norway trip. So I have my friend Ingvild Kolnes on with me. She is an Elopement photographer based in Norway and also has an amazing podcast, the sustainable photography podcast you definitely have to listen to. But we're just going to talk really briefly about what this trip is going to look like and what you can expect and what it's like traveling through the fjords of Norway. So, Engeld, what is one thing that you are just so excited about for this trip that you want everyone to know why they definitely need to come to Norway?
[00:39:14] Speaker A: If I have to say just one thing, I guess the landscape. Even though I've said this many times before, even though I'm from here and I've been to these places before, it's like breathtaking every time I'm there. So I've chosen places that I just know is going to blow your mind. And I'm so excited. I'm just so excited.
[00:39:35] Speaker C: I mean, when we had our planning meeting the other day and we were looking at Google Earth and zooming in on these different towns that you were showing me and kind of discussing the itinerary. I just got so excited. So maybe can you talk us through what you and I discussed the other day of landing in Oslo and taking a train? And what are some of the things that little highlights? Because oh, my goodness. When we were doing this, I got so excited. We literally were zooming in on, like, oh, my gosh, there's a sheep.
[00:40:07] Speaker A: I know. So we have to take a train, at least one, because some of those train rides are rated, like, the best in the world, and you don't want to miss that. So you can just sit there and talk and kind of hang out while this amazing landscape just flies by.
[00:40:25] Speaker C: I love a train. I love a train. Like, I would travel by train all the time. I hate driving. I would travel by train all the time.
[00:40:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So we're going to do the train thing when we can and then hopefully stopping, maybe checking out some waterfalls because there's a bunch of those and doing some hiking and stuff. And some of those hikes, you don't have to hike very far. And then it's just I mean, I don't even know how to describe it because the views are just amazing.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: If you're a photographer or just if you're a creative, active person, you're going to be blown away by the things that we see and the photo moments. And this trip is not just for photographers, but I think anyone that loves hiking, loves adventure, loves beautiful scenery, or has ever been like, I wish I could be a destination elopement photographer. This is for sure your trip.
[00:41:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And you do not have to be a photographer to appreciate these things. And we're going to do so many fun things. We're going to take a boat ride and stop in some cool places where it's like no one lives there. The boat just stops there, and you can go out, explore, and just see things that hardly anyone's ever seen. It's just like it's nature that hasn't been done anything to, and it's just so cool.
[00:41:42] Speaker C: And this is in the area of the fjords in Norway, right. So you have these steep, beautiful cliffs and water, and they're kind of all these switchbacks, and so we'll be able to take a boat kind of through. This feels very Lord of the Rings.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: They did consider Norway for filming Lord of the Rings, so it could have been yeah, for sure.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: Okay, so we're going to be doing.
[00:42:07] Speaker C: Some boat riding, probably some kayaking, some hiking, see some small fishing towns in Norway and take some beautiful trains through the countryside. And the other thing that you and I found, or that you found, really, that I just got really excited about is there's a sauna that sits in the fjord. So you are sitting in the sauna having your spa day and looking out on the water in this fjords, I'm like, oh my gosh, you all know.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: I love a sauna. Yeah. So it's going to be pretty great.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:42:39] Speaker C: Well, what can people expect? What are we going to be talking about? Because you have things that are kind of your things that you love to talk about. I have things that are kind of my things that I love to talk about. And each trip is really tailored to the people that go on the trips, but also each tend to have a different theme. And I love the way this trip's themes have been shaping up because it's really a lot of lifestyle design, a lot of sustainable, some podcasting thrown in there. What are some of the things that you're excited to talk about on this trip?
[00:43:10] Speaker A: I think maybe one of my favorite things to talk about that I just can't ever get enough of is websites. The power of having your own website is like a marketing platform that just works for you, that has to be mentioned. And I know I have to say something about that at some point, using SEO and using marketing to just kind of you don't have to do things the way everyone else does it. I've been able to do marketing that way and I don't have to spend a ton of time doing marketing. And I think that's just freed up a bunch of time so I can do things my way and just have a lot of time off and travel and stuff. And I know that's something that you're really passionate about as well. Just doing things in a different yeah, yeah.
[00:43:53] Speaker C: If you aren't familiar with Ingold, she does these beautiful Norwegian elopements and a lot of times your clients are coming from other places in the world too. And so you've really leveraged SEO and your website to attract the right clients and then it gives you a ton of free time. I love that you and your partner took a van and lived in the fjords last summer and just van life and you've created so many amazing lifestyle, really intentional moments in your world too. And that's also something I'm really passionate about is like, take a whole month off and be with your family. The reason we're building a business is for more freedom and for more fun. And so let's build that in. So I get really nerdy about those conversations. I'm like, let's talk about financial independence and living life on your terms. So we're going to have some of that mixed into and if you haven't been on one of these trips before, kind of how they're formatted is we'll do facilitated conversations and workshops in the morning. Sometimes we would be teaching something, but sometimes we might be hosting a conversation about something. Because the people that come on these trips are brilliant. They have so much knowledge, so much experience. People have been in their industry for 1020 plus years sometimes. And so it's not just us talking at you, it's us talking with you. So we'll be doing that in the mornings, and then in the afternoons, we have all these amazing activities planned in experiences. Sometimes we throw in a surprise because I love a surprise. And then also, like Will mentioned, we might be having some of those facilitated conversations in a meadow in the middle of the fjords, or on a train driving through the Norwegian countryside. So anything else that you imagine we'll be doing or experiencing or something that you really love about your home country?
[00:45:45] Speaker A: I think my favorite part, or the thing I'm looking most forward to is just hanging out with others who are like minded. I think in terms of Norway specifically, it is the untouched landscape and just the quiet and the freedom of it.
[00:46:00] Speaker B: Love that.
[00:46:01] Speaker C: Well, I'm so excited. So if this is a trip that you're interested in, obviously hit us up. We're happy to talk with you about it. There are only six spots, so that means there's only a few left. And we'd love to have you. We cannot wait to travel with you. This one is end of September 2024, so make sure you go to Dangerschool.com studyabroad and you can see all the trips that we're doing. And get more information on this one specifically.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: You just listened to an episode of Sustainable Photography. Please share this episode with the photographer you care about.
