Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: It's probably close to impossible to run a photography business if you're invisible. People need to know you exist, and more than that, they need to like you and trust you. To make that happen, you have to show up as yourself again and again, and that can be a real challenge. But thankfully, I met Ursula a few years back and she really helped me out. And now you get to meet her too.
You're listening to sustainable photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration, and confidence building. I'm Ingvild Kolnes, the host of this podcast, and after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers, and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
Hi, Ursula. Welcome to sustainable photography. I am beyond excited to have this talk. We've been trying to plan this for as long as I've had the podcast. So finally, for me to be on.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: An episode.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: Yeah, but you've had a lot going on, so maybe we can just start there. You just tell us who you are, your background, and how you have become a visibility coach, and of course, also mention your background as a photographer.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Okay, well, firstly, thanks for having me here.
It's really nice to actually have finally be on the podcast, and I'm pretty good with telling my story, but I don't do it very often. And it's quite an interesting thing when somebody says to you, I'm kind of skipping ahead because I've just moved to where I am now two and a half years ago. Well, actually getting on for three years, when you meet people for the first time, they say, hey, what do you do? And it's so easy to say, hey, I'm a photographer. People get that straight away, oh, I sort of show for you. But when you say, oh, I'm a visibility coach, or I help women who struggle with being visible so they can feel more empowered and they can elevate the brand. And it's like people are like, what? So you have to find ways of saying what it is that you do in simple layman terms without dumbing yourself down. So it's quite interesting.
I don't talk about myself all of the time, but because I've moved somewhere new, people say, hey, what do you do? So photography is one of those brilliant things that people get it straight away. Like if you said you were a doctor or a nurse or anything, photography, people get it, but people always assume straight off that you're a wedding photographer. Right? And many of you will be wanting to break into the industry or already in the industry, and you want to kind of grow that side of your brand. But there's so many different types of photography that you can specialize in. And I would say if you ask me what my specialism is, it's people. And that has led to visibility, I guess, and we'll kind of get onto that story. So I did my degree back in 1994. You can't see this podcast right now, so you can only guess by my age. Do I sound younger for my age or older? Who knows? But I picked up a camera surround 1990, and it was encouraged by my then boyfriend, who I started my first business with, who, strangely enough, is coming to visit me today with his new partner, which is quite incredible. I thought I should be talking about this today, the start of my journey.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: But, yeah, I mean, he lives 300 miles away. But the thing is that when you're not really sure about what it is exactly that you want to do, but, you know, the stuff that makes you excited, I think that is your inkling of like, so for you guys listening who are starting out in photography or want to start out in photography, you know, there's something about it. There's something about making images, there's something about capturing people or telling stories somehow that it's kind of like a bug that won't go away. And I remember him saying to me, so what is it you would like to do? Because I decided at this point I wasn't going to become a nurse, which was what I thought up until that point. I won't tell you the story as to why that was, but I was like, well, I love watching fashion know on MTV, they have like a fashion channel, and I love watching it. I love all of the lights. I love the movement of it. I love the clothes. I just love all of it. It's like theater, but nobody's talking.
And he was like, oh, well, have you thought about photography? And literally my brain went, no photography. Who is a photographer? I don't know anyone as a photographer. I don't know anybody who does that. And my brain had to kind of go, oh, yeah, we see photography every day. It's everywhere. There's nowhere where we won't. It's very unusual to go through a day without seeing a photograph. It's every piece of marketing on the back of a bus. It's everywhere. And remember, this is back in the early 90s as well. So we're not thinking about social media the way we are now. So without going into all the details. I was like, okay. He lent me his camera. He was studying animation at art school. Let me say digital Slr. It wasn't. It was just an SLR, a 35 millimeter camera. And I took some photographs with that. And the first roll of film that I took, I completely misunderstood how f stops worked and shutter speeds, and so only one image came out. I hadn't realized that actually, if I was closing my lens down, I thought I was opening it up, and if I was opening it up, I thought I was closing it down. So I misunderstood where a 2.8, like an f stuff of 2.8, was in relation to an F 22, for example. So if you're starting out elopement photographer, don't worry about that. I don't want to bore you with tech stuff, but what it meant when you're shooting on film was like, oh, my gosh, I'm never going to be able to do this. This is really embarrassing. My next door neighbor was going off to his prom, and they were like, can you take some pictures because you're starting to make photographs? And I was like, yeah, sure. Then they were like, oh, can we see the photographs? You get the roll of film processed.
They haven't really worked out very well. I don't really know what I'm doing. And there's that moment where you're like, I probably shouldn't do this. This is way too technical for me. But I did. I did a foundation course in Ireland, ended up winning student of the year, moved off to the UK, did three years of a degree, and then stead living in England for the next 27 years or something, until all of us will have our own experience over the past three years. We're recording this at the beginning of 2024. Remember where the past few years was like, what are we going to do if we can't work? And at that point, I'd already been thinking of moving to where I live now, which is the little scottish island called the Isle of Arran. And we couldn't go out and make photography. My now partner, he makes video. We couldn't go and work. We couldn't generate an income. And it was a really challenging time. We are at a point where we had just invested. We had sold a house that we had, and invested that money from our property into the business. We bought all this new kit. We were like, come on, let's go. We're kind of getting up another gear. We're serious professionals. We know that we can do this.
And then you're struck with this, like, oh, we can't work now and our money is tied up in this equipment that's going to sit in a wardrobe for the next probably twelve months or whatever it turned into being. And so that was the point that the visibility coach part kicked in. So my whole journey up to that point was a photographer. I had photographed everything you can think of except aerial photography and underwater photography. I'd done everything.
Babies, bumps, boudoir photography. I had an award winning studio.
I'd done everything, all of it. And I was like, what do I do? I don't know how to do anything else. I could go and clean someone's house, but you're not allowed in someone's house. What am I actually going to do?
And I had in the back of my mind a lot of the time when I would do photo shoots that people would say, gosh, this was kind of like a coaching session as well as photography. This felt like I had some therapy. This was like, oh my gosh, it was like therapy and photography all rolled into one. I would hear these things and kind of bath them away and not really think anything of it. Because much like you guys listening in, if you're starting on your journey, or you're thinking about starting on this journey, there's a little bit of self doubt all the time of who am I to do this? Am I qualified? Will I be good enough? There's so many people out there already doing this thing. Sure. Like, what's the point in me doing it? And so I had that in the back of my mind, oh, okay, maybe I could do that thing. Maybe I could do that thing. And it was like, well, what will I specialize in? And at that point, if you can remember, everyone was on Zoom. And if you're on Zoom, if you're networking online, you need to have your camera on. If you're promoting your business online, people need to see your face. You cannot be a faceless brand, or people might as well buy something from some. They can go onto Amazon and they can just click it. I want to buy a blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't really matter. I'm going to find the cheapest thing that gets to me here as quick as possible. That's not what people are buying when they're buying from us. As individual business owners, they want a little bit of us. And I could see that people, I was getting on these calls where people had their cameras off and they weren't able to show up. And I thought I could maybe help with that. And so that's what I did, and that's where I kind of am now.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Because back in 2020, it must have been 2020, you had your Facebook group all about getting visible and showing up. And that's where I did my first live because I was so scared. I remember when I did my first live, I was like, actually, I remember that everything just went black and I thought, I might actually die.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: No.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: And then you had your group where we could practice, and it was like, oh, this was okay. It was fine. And then as time has gone, it's just become easier and easier. But it all started with you and your pep talks and saying how it's going to be okay. So, yeah, really grateful for that.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: You weren't alone. And it's lovely to hear that because there's times when the stuff that we've done is gone and you're like, did it matter? Did it make a difference? Was it worth it? We all have those questions all of the time. And as we progress, as you guys listening in, as you guys progress, it's almost hard to remember where you were a year, two, three, four or five years ago. And you have to kind of remind yourself of that, that what takes you maybe four or 5 hours to do now will take you way less time in the future. And an example of going live, I mean, the reason I decided to specialize in visibility was literally, I described myself as the camera shy photographer. I had no Facebook profile picture of me for, like, seven years. I struggled massively with the idea of showing up for myself and showing up for an audience. And as photographers, we don't really have to. In some ways. Well, we didn't really have to because it's like, well, I've got the camera. I'm in control. You can't take a photo of me. And remember back in the early 90s as well, no one had to use my SLR because it wasn't digital, so they couldn't figure out f stops and shutter speeds and stuff. So no one ever really got to take a photo of me. And so the odd times that those photographs would happen, there would be cringe moments you would stand in because it was a family occasion. I must be in this photograph, or I haven't existed. I can't make out, like, I'm so vain that I won't be in the picture, but it would be the most incredibly uncomfortable thing. Like you're saying now, how you on that first live that you practiced in the Facebook group, that you felt like you might kind of go unconscious, you might collapse. I used to feel like that to photograph all the time. It was like, I don't know what's going to happen to this photograph. I don't know who's going to see it, and I don't know what they're going to think of me. And all of that is running through your head the whole time while everybody else has had their arms around each other going, hey, everyone's really happy. It's a special occasion. You're like, oh, my gosh, from many different places, from many different angles. I understand the uncomfortableness of standing in front of, not behind the camera, but I also know that unless we stand in front of it, nobody will know who we are, and we are just a faceless brand. And when you scroll through Instagram, you get that click. Someone says, so and so and so followed you. You're like, oh, that's nice. And then you click on the grid and you're searching back through it going, who are they? Have I met them before on a dog walk? Do I know them from some networking event or something? You're going, I have no idea who they are because they're not there. Beautiful photos, but I don't know who they are. And so it's a real issue for us. If we cannot show up for ourselves, then we won't show up for our audience. And they don't get the opportunity to connect with us and know who we are. If our values align, if our energy aligns, if our creativity might align, because they can see these pictures, but they want to know a bit of who you are. So it's massively, massively important, and it's a huge act of self love. To get to the point where you can show up, use your voice and say, this is me, this is what I care about, this is what I do.
That's all you're really doing, is a massive act of self love, but it requires an awful lot of courage, and it cries consistency and practice and clarity around your message, just like photography does. As you hone your skill, as you get better at what you're doing, the first photograph you take is like, okay. And then it develops and develops and develops on, pardon the pun, it develops on to whatever point you're at now. And I don't know what photographer it was that said, maybe you'll know, is, what's the best photograph you've ever taken? And the response was, the one that I take tomorrow. It's like, I haven't made my best photograph yet. If I've made my best photograph, then I might as well stop, right? So it's the same with her visibility. You might feel absolutely terrified of it. But guess what? The sooner you start, the sooner that starts to dwindle. And it might never go away completely, but it certainly will not be the same as it is today before you start. So you've got to start. Give it a go.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think it's really important, and it's also really important for you to be able to stand out, to get noticed. So it's a great way for you to kind of get ahead of your competition because you'll have less competition the more yourself you're being, because there's only one of you. So I think it's a good thing for your business, it's a good thing for the way you feel about yourself.
But it can be really challenging. And I think practice does play a huge part in it.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Oh, 100% it does. And the interesting thing is that once you start and you show up consistently doing this, whatever consistent looks like for you, because we're all unique, and for some people, they can do it every day, some people's every week. It might be once a month, whatever that happens to be, is that. What's really incredible is that when you look in a mirror, the impact of you looking in the mirror, it starts to change. Now, if you're listening and you find it uncomfortable to look at yourself, if you're self critical in any way, if you wish your nose, your eyes, your skin were different, whatever that might be for you, whatever your own critical voice is about your perception of how you look, that is incredible, because that starts to go away. Because you start to see yourself so much more. You become accustomed to it. Just like if you paint the wall in your bedroom yellow or something, and at first you come in, you go, oh, it's really yellow, it's really bright. Whoa. And it stands out after a period of time. You don't even see the walls yellow anymore. So it has this massive impact on us psychologically, physically, in terms of how we socially interact with other people. Because however entity that is you, that is yourself, you have started to show up for yourself. And you start from a place of self acceptance will come the place of love. It doesn't start straight away. You can't. I love myself so much. Self acceptance comes first, and that is through failure.
I didn't really work out so well, but it's okay. It's completely fine. And forgiving yourself. And then we go again, and then we go again and that's what we have to do. So we know that there might be multiple times that we have to do something to get to that point of actually going, oh, that's actually okay. I would like people to see this, or I'd like people to watch it, or I'd like people to just like, when you put some images on Instagram, right? You're like, oh, I really like these ones. I'm proud of them. I hope it gets the engagement. It's the same about yourself. And the interesting thing is that people will respond to images of you, to content that you're in way more than content of your dog, your cat. Well, it depends on how cute your dog or cat is, what they were doing when you filmed them, but they will much more than you're like, oh, here's a beautiful plant and here's some nice shadows and whatever people want to, because they're like, oh, it's so nice to see you. And I really respect what you're talking about. Or that really resonates with me and they respond to it. So it has a massive impact on our business when we can show up.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: It'S so important. And I think most will recognize that if they've ever shared photos of themselves, they'll notice that, oh, that's doing way better than anything else I'm sharing. And of course, as photographers, it's hard to just share photos of yourself, but we could probably do it a lot more than we already are.
It's really connected to the whole thing with visibility, and that's how you work to build others confidence and help them to feel better. Can you say something about that as well?
[00:18:30] Speaker B: So I think that if we talk about visibility from a business perspective, it's so easy to just go, oh, okay, well, this is about numbers, this is about metrics, this is about generating more income for myself. But it's way more than that. It's deeper than that. This whole idea of self acceptance, of being our authentic selves, of living whatever you call your best life is. I like to think that my best life today will be a different tomorrow, and then next week and next year, my best life, pre global pandemic was completely different than it is now. And we're constantly evolving and changing. And so if we can give ourselves the permission to say, okay, I'm going to give this a go, I'm going to try this. And I don't expect for it to get me the metrics or the results or anything straight away, but if I do it consistently, week in week out, week in, week out. I know that I will grow as a person because I can't not. It's like saying, I love using the analogy of, it's very simple. How do we lose weight, eat less, exercise more? There's more to it than that. But straight away they're the two things you would come to, right? These are what I have to do in order to become confident at something. In order to feel better about ourselves, we have to feel confident in something. And in order to get confident in something, then we have to do it over and over and over again. And there's no specific number of how many times you might have to do it, because for one person they might feel confident after ten tries, and somebody else it might take 100. That's based on who you are as an individual. But what does matter is your commitment to yourself. That I want to feel better about myself on this journey, that is my journey for however long I have on this earth. I want to make it worth something. And if I can stop beating myself up about how I look, how I sound, all of those things, then it's going to make it so much easier just to live my life. If you're like, oh my gosh, I can't have a conversation with people because I'm uncomfortable with what I say.
What is that about? So we talk about visibility because, oh, we want to get more clients, but actually we want to get closer to ourselves, closer to who we really are, and then closer to the truth of how it is that we want to live our lives personally and professionally. So it's so much easier to align with. They're the sort of clients that I want. Because if you don't already know, I'm sure if you're listening, your ideal client is kind of just another version of you. They're the people you want to have tea and cake with, or coffee and whatever, with whatever your preference is or person that you would hang around with in a normal situation. That's your ideal client. So they're another version of you. So the version of you that's hiding inside, that's maybe a little bit unsure. Should I show this to the world because maybe they won't like it. You got to be yourself. You've got to be you. And that takes courage to show up. It takes a massive amount of vulnerability. I sometimes talk about vulnerability and visibility equals authenticity. And who doesn't want to be, regardless of the word authenticity being seen as a buzzword or whatever, who doesn't want to be around somebody who's just being themselves because you never have to look over your shoulder. If you're being yourself, you never have to go, oh, what did I say yesterday? I'm not sure.
Was that the right thing to say? The right thing to say is the thing that you believe is the thing that you know inside of you is actually who you are. So I haven't turned up for this podcast today with all the wonderful questions you prepared for me with answers on a piece of paper so I can read them back to you because I'm only talking to you from my place, of me. And so when we get to that place, then opportunities are limitless because you're like, well, I'm not scared of going, hey, would you like to work with me? Hey, this is what I do. Here's my portfolio, these are my prices. Those conversations become easier because you're like, I've worked through all of these things and I know that for me to love myself enough, I'm not going to do those things. I'm not going to work for free for a low fee, for whatever we do. Sometimes, yeah, we might have charities or organizations or projects that we want to support, that's one thing. But I mean on a constant day to day basis. So self love. This idea of showing up and being visible, what does it mean? Let's just forget about the metrics and what it might mean for your business, because that's a given, right? That's a given that it's going to help you to generate more income. But what does it mean for you?
What would it mean for you if you could turn up and put the camera on and record yourself talking about something that matters to you? What would it mean if you could go into the bathroom in the morning and look in the mirror without picking apart yourself?
But that idea of just like, oh, I was just being me. And over a period of time, all of that starts to fall away and you're like, I am truly being myself. And then there's nothing to worry about. And when that's lifted off your shoulders, then you've got more time, more energy, more space to focus on your business, your prices, who you want to work with, where you want to work, all of those things because you're not just caught up in, oh, maybe whatever that happens to look like or feel like for you. So this constant journey that we're on, we're all evolving, I would like to think all of the time, and if we talk about visibility and I say, what would it mean to be visible to yourself?
What would that actually mean? And so by being open and honest and kind and loving, as hippie as that might sound, those things matter just as much as anything else for your business, just as much as your branding, just as much as what your bio says, those things, because those things, when you have them, will get you up and out of bed every day and able to do the stuff that's uncomfortable. And in business, we have to do the stuff that's uncomfortable. Like, no matter what stage of business you're at. And I've been doing this since the moved my business and my life and my family 300 miles away in March 21. And I kind of started kind of all over again. So you can do it. Visibility is not just out there. Get more clients. For me, it's so much more than that. It's about being soulful, honest, kind, respectful and loving yourself enough that what you want in this life matters.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: Why don't you head over to englisholness.com mindset to download the free mindset resource? It can be a great help to figure out what you're struggling with and to sort some of those things out when it comes to your business. The way you think about money and areas of your business where you're holding yourself back. Go to invilcolness.com mindset.
One objection or hesitation that I keep hearing again and again is I don't know what I should share. I don't know what I shouldn't share. I want to keep my boundaries. I want to be private. Do you have any suggestions for how to have that balance between what we're comfortable sharing and what we're not comfortable sharing?
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's quite an interesting one because what I was just saying there about being ourselves, it means that you can talk honestly and openly about what matters to you and you don't have to worry about it. Afterwards. I used to call them social post mortems, where you're like, oh gosh, did I actually say that in that situation? Like the next day you'd be like, but if you want to have boundaries in place, that's fine. So you just go, well, these are the things I choose not to talk about, whether it's your relationship, your children, how much income you're generating, whatever that is, and you just know and you kind of can write them on a piece of paper and go, these are off the agenda. These are things I don't talk about. There's loads of other things in my life that I will talk about. And you get clear on that. So what I will say to people all the time is, if I was to talk to you about your business, would you struggle to talk about it? No. If you had to talk about it in 60 seconds, would you struggle to talk about it? Maybe. Great. So then you can go and make a piece of video content, live or whatever, and then give yourself a five or ten minute window, not 62nd window. And it can be anything like, what are you doing? People are inquisitive.
It's interesting. Yesterday, one of my clients I've been working with for three years, we were just reiterating again about content for socials. And it's like you're either entertaining, you're educating, or you're informing. And if you're doing one of those things, then it's fine. And by entertaining straight away, we might go, oh, I need to be funny. Entertainment isn't just funny. Entertainment is how people spend their time. They want to be entertained. And if that's you talking about something that you do that they might have an interest in, then that's all it is. How I set this job up, what my client said to me, what goes in my camera bag. All of these things don't even have to include your face.
So it's fine. People just want to watch. I mean, we think about some of the reels that trend the most. The people in a car driving past beautiful trees and just autumn leaves falling down. It's not. And somebody's talking over the top. So it's more about the fact that you are showing snippets of your life. You're talking about what your values are, what you care about doesn't have to be what's going on in the world as such, but what's going on in your world, and that's what people want to know about. So you can come with that list. These are my boundaries. These are the things I will not talk about. They're off the cards, they're off the whatever, but I will talk about these things and then just make that list. I'm happy to talk about my dog, my kids, my cooking dinner while I was trying to edit some photos. Like, whatever it is people are going to relate to, then that's what you talk about.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: I like that people are probably making it more complicated than it really is, especially in the beginning, because then your focus should probably be to just show up and then you can be more mindful later on as to like, okay, so that maybe wasn't so interesting to people. I'm going to talk about this instead of thinking that you have to have everything figured out before you start.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: It's interesting. I'd love to know why you think people do that. Because I have my kind of little. I think people probably do it because, why do you think people probably put it off? I mean, what do you see in your community? Why women will say, I can't do this. Elopement. Photographer will say, I can't do this.
What do you think is going on, really, for people?
[00:29:33] Speaker A: I think it's an excuse in many ways. Like, it's something that's scary, so it's something to hide behind. Like, oh, I don't really have anything to talk about. My house is always messy. I don't usually wear makeup, and my clients are really put together, and they have a really nice home. And my house, myself is nothing like that, so then I shouldn't show up. And I feel like I can relate to that because I used to think that everything had to be so perfect. I used to think that all my videos used to, like, they have to be perfect. I have to have perfect slides over everything. I have to have perfect lighting and nice clothes and makeup and hair and all that stuff for me to make videos. And as time has gone by, and as I've been paying attention to some of the people I love following, it's like, oh, that girl is just showing up, sitting at her kitchen table, wearing the t shirt she slept in, or, oh, that girl isn't even wearing makeup. And then as time has gone by, I'm sitting here with no makeup on, and I've just put on something that I found next door. And I don't know if anyone's going to see this video, but as I told you before, my initial goal was to have everything put on YouTube. And the reason it's not on YouTube isn't because I'm thinking about how I look. It's because I don't have the time to deal with all the technical stuff and how to.
I just think that it's possible to have that. I don't know, evolution in a way, where you go from thinking that everything has to be perfect to just doing it, but having a million reasons of everything, that is why you can't do it. I think that is something that's relatable for many.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: It is, and that's exactly what I was thinking. It's like this excuse thing. So actually, just taking that word, if you take evolution and if you're listening in and you wrote those two words down, excuse versus evolution, it's like there's a million reasons why I cannot do this. I remember my first personal Brandon shoot three years ago. I remember it so well. Like, all of the reasons why I wasn't actually going to go the next day. My hair had been cut too short. He'd cut my fringe too short. The makeup artist wasn't going to be able to come. There was all these reasons gone. See, these are all the clothes I'd ordered online hadn't arrived. I was like, these are all these reasons. I knew I shouldn't be getting my own photographs done. I'm better off behind the camera. Just stay there, it's fine. But I turned up with a short fringe that was way too short. Like, who cares? Nobody cares. Some people are like, oh, your fringe, a bit shorter. People are like, I love your fringe. Like that. It doesn't matter at the end of the day, but for me, at that time, it mattered so much because it was the first time. And so, like, you're saying this perfectionist thing, we procrastinate and procrastinate, then, and then we're completely paralyzed. We take no action at all. And then we're like, oh, okay. I'm still the exact same place twelve months later. So it's this. Always excuses. Always excuses. We find them for ourselves. We do it to keep ourselves safe, is what I believe, anyway. But actually, we're not really keeping ourselves safe at all. It's through evolution that we become safer, because through evolution, we're checking out what's going on in our surroundings, right, personally and professionally, and we're adapting in order to survive and thrive in that new environment. And so we have to do that. And if we find excuses, then we're kind of left that little bit behind because technology moves on, trends in business move on. Stuff shifts and evolves. And so we have to invest in ourselves and our own personal evolution and stop finding excuses. And things like social media are brilliant because they're free platforms and you can get out there and you can say whatever you want, but you have to be honest with yourself about, this is what I care about enough. I care about it enough to show up and talk about it and share about it and have conversation about it, just like you would with your friends, just like you would around the dinner table, like, whatever works for you, how that works in the gym, people are in running clubs, bake offs, like, whatever it is that you do where you meet your community. But I think that's two really powerful words that people can take with them is excuse versus evolution, which is it going to be so the excuses, I can't, not now. Maybe next time, next year. I haven't got the money. I haven't got the energy. Haven't got the time. I don't have the makeup. My kitchen, like all of those things you said today, whether or not this ever goes on YouTube, I'm in the corner of my conservatory because I'm going through a period of evolution again. I'm going to have. What is the office now is going through, going to become a little mini studio, and I'm going to make a space on the island where people can come to and have portraits done. I haven't done that since I've been here. I've been evolving again as a business owner. What am I doing? A lot of my time and energy goes into my coaching, but there isn't really anybody doing what I do on this little island, so it seems like a shame not to. And sometimes I see people who are really interesting. I see kids sometimes on the beach, like, oh, my God, it would be so beautiful to make. The light is amazing. I want to make some photos. So that's my evolution at the moment. My excuse could be, well, I haven't got a proper office to work out right now while I'm doing that. And it's a bad time of the year because it's January and it's kind of cold and you shouldn't really decorate then, like, la, la, la, blast. Maybe nobody will ever come and buy anything from my studio. We never stop making excuses, but what's important is to recognize that we are so recognize you're making an excuse and go, is it an excuse? Is it valid?
Or is it just prohibited me from actually my own personal evolution? And I think that's actually quite powerful. I might have to think about that for myself.
Excuse evolution, which one is it?
[00:35:32] Speaker A: Yeah, but there's something about that, because something that we talk a lot about in my program and the things that I do with my students is values. Like, what are your values? Because to me, and I think that it's important that we stay on brand and we do the thing that's right for us, but it should have a foundation in values. And as far as I can remember, no one's ever had perfectionism as a value, as something that they're striving towards. So I think sometimes you just have to do it and then, okay, you can get better. It can improve. Okay. So it's hard for you to do in person sales because you just have your home, you don't have an office, you don't have a studio.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: But just start there.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: If you actually want to do it, you'll find a way to make it work. And then, okay, so a couple of years down the road, maybe it's going to make financially sense for you to have your own studio or office to do it from. But start, start.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: I used to do in person viewings in people's homes when I had downsized, when I closed the studio down and I was working from home after I became a mum, and I was like, okay, this is not going to work for me anymore. The studio with the overheads and blah, blah, blah, what am I going to do? And I would go to their house and shoot them in their house, and then I would go away and do all my edits and then come back carrying my giant 27 inch imac into their home to do a presentation on my imac in their home. And they were always more enjoyable because they got to see them and they were always more profitable.
Some families didn't even ask how much stuff cost. They would just be like, okay. Because I could look around their home and go, okay, well, where are you thinking? This is always a good question to ask beforehand. What do you want these photographs for? Are they going to be digital in the album? Are you going to print them in the head? Probably to go on the wall. Where do you think? On the wall? They would like to go, right in what room? What's the color scheme of that room? Brilliant. Okay. And then we would work through that. So when I'd come to their house, I would make sure that the children or the family was dressed in colors that were going to work with a color scheme in their home. And then when we went back to do a viewing, I'd go, right, so this wall here, get the measuring tape out. What size do you think? So actually, it worked really well because I was in their home, and they'd be like, they weren't going to buy a ten x eight, like, ten inches by eight inches. It was tiny on the wall, so they would buy when I was in their home better than when I had my studio. And it was completely like, it was huge. And they'd be like, well, this is a really big space, so probably don't need anything. They had no idea what was going to be the right size on their wall. So that is definitely one that you can take advantage of, is doing viewings in your own home. But going back to the perfectionist thing in my program, one of the things I talk about a lot. We go Ppp, and in the end, it's just like, PPP is it a ppP? And so PPP is this idea of, like, you are so getting. It has to be perfect. My grid has got to be perfect. My branding all has got to be perfect before I go out and offer it to anybody. Right? So then, like I was saying earlier on, we procrastinate. And in that procrastination, that might be a week, it might be a month, it might be a year, and then you're totally, totally stuck because you don't know what to do. So what you have to do, like you're saying, is we have to take the action. Take the action now. And from that, we grow from that place. We grow not from inaction.
Inaction creates more inaction. Action creates more action. So you have to recognize, what am I doing right now? It doesn't have to be perfect. There's room for improvement. And like I said earlier on, I wish I could remember the photographer's name who said it. What's the best photograph you've taken? The one I take tomorrow. It's the same with everything in our business. It will be better the next day, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't go out today.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: So true. I really hope that whoever is listening is like, okay, I get it. It's just about starting, it's just about doing it. But if they're still hesitating, do you have any, I almost want to say, like, quick tips, what can push them over the edge, almost.
To just do the thing that they're not doing.
[00:39:59] Speaker B: Just do the thing they're not doing. Okay, so if you have kids or, you know, anyone who's got kids, this is a really easy one to think about. They come home, they're scared there's going to be a school play, there's a performance, there's a music recital. There is like, I don't know, a swimming thing or a football match or there's something going on. Like this morning, my son has got to play. He's going to play Wonderwall by Oasis and he's got to play it in school this morning. He's got to play it from start to finish. And he was up until 10:30 last night practicing this. It's kind of crazy. And he doesn't want to perform in front of the whole class because he knows some jokers in the class who might take out of him if he doesn't get it right. But he would be comfortable to do it with five people five people who know him, who will not be nasty to him. And so that's brilliant. He hasn't said, I don't want to go in, I'm sick, I'm going to completely avoid it. I don't want to do this thing. Do it to a small group. So if you're scared of doing the thing and doing the thing feels like I'm doing this to the whole world, it's 1 million people, you don't have to do it to the whole world. Start small.
So if you take that analogy of my son is going to place the whole class, maybe 25 of them or something, or he just plays to five. That feels like it's more doable for him playing to five. I'm like, go all in. Play to the whole 25. It doesn't really make any difference.
I'm like, give the finger to the kids who are giving you a hard time. But that's me at the age that I am now, with the confidence that with the evolution I've gone through, not 14 year old me, who would have been exactly like him, who actually wouldn't have played the guitar at all, who were probably like, I've got a pain in my stomach, I can't go to school. So doesn't start. We really just have to start.
What's really important is the love that you will give to a partner, to a pet, to a child, to a family relative, to a friend or another person that love you would give to them. And when you would encourage them, go, come on, give it a go. I know you're really good at this. I've heard you, I've seen you, I've witnessed you, I've whatever, I've heard other people say it, that love that you would give to them, give it to yourself, because we will get to that point where it is the last day of our lives and we will look back, and I guarantee that none of us look back and go, I really wish I hadn't given that a try.
It didn't work out for me, but I really wish I hadn't even tried. No one's ever, ever going to get to the end of life and say, I wish I hadn't tried. So if you need to try small, try small, and then let it grow from there, but just try, just give it a go. Because if you don't give it a go, you'll never know. You'll just never know.
[00:42:45] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.
I also have to ask you a question about sustainability. I really want to know what your thoughts are on having a sustainable business.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: So this is quite an interesting one because sustainability, straight away, when we think about it just as a word, by itself, my brain always comes back to sustainability in terms of the environment. We think about stuff lasting and it being okay. And if we think about it from that place, if we think about it as a global impact, and then we take that idea and put it around us as a business, it's not just one thing that's going to make the world or make us and our business sustainable is many, many things, many different fragments. And so if you're listening to this, and I was to say to you, what does sustainability mean to you? I'm sure you could come up with a list of answers for that. But for me, it's like a whole delicate ecosystem that they all have to work in tandem. It's not just, oh, the income, because if I have the money, then I have a sustainable business. It's way more than that, because we can be doing the work with the people that we don't want to do the work with and getting the money. And then we feel burnt out or we feel exhausted, or we feel like there was no joy in that. And one of the models that I work on in my program is I've got like a triangle. And I talk about, so in terms of sustainability, I talk about confidence, profit and joy. Or sometimes I change the word profit to abundance. So if we imagine a triangle, this tree size, and in order for, if you try to stand it up, it will stand, okay, if you take one of the size away, you've got like two lines. And you could maybe balance that. But if you take two of them away, you just left one line. Like a flat line, just flat line. That's all you've got, right? So you need to think about those things that are going to make your business sustainable. And for me, and where I look at my business and encourage my clients to do so, is, is it bringing me confidence? Is it creating confidence? Is it allowing me to have abundance, profit in my business, in my life? And is it allowing me to experience it and create more joy for me, for my clients, for my community, for the world? And so in terms of sustainability, I think if you have those three things working in tandem, then you're like, that's the winner. And if you have a job where you're like, oh my gosh, I felt so confident during it, after it. When I look at the images, I'm like, whoa. And it paid me. And it paid me well. So I made some profit. And I felt really good when I was doing it and it was really joyful. Those people I worked with were brilliant. I loved it. I could do it again ten times over. That is for me like that. Happy, juicy, perfect. Whatever language you want to use, spot the sustainability, you have to look at it. If your business is to be profitable, what are all the things that are going to make your business profitable? Yeah, if you want to experience abundance, it's the same thing. Profit and abundance for me are like hand in hand. What are the things that are going to enable you to feel confident about your business? What are those things? Branding, marketing, showing up a visibility strategy, being yourself, being authentic, knowing that my batteries are charged, I've got my memory cards, all that stuff. I've got to prepare when I turn up for a job. And then the joy.
Why are you doing this anyway?
What is it in this specific area of photography? If it's wedding photography, what sort of wedding photography? We niche it down. Is it elopens? Is it for people who want really small weddings? Is it like big, lavish weddings in Greece? Is it like, where is it? Where do you get your joy and your joy, you know, for you is the place where you would shoot all day and you're like, it's getting dark. I've been shooting for 48 hours. I really need to stop. My eyes aren't working anymore. I'm exhausted, my back is going. But you're so in the zone. It's so joyful. You're loving it so much that you don't want it to end. It's playful. So if you can look at all those elements in your business and kind of know that they're working together, for me, that's sustainability. So I cannot work just for the money. It's not worth it. I can't just work for the confidence and joy because then I won't have any income. So I can't work for any one of those elements on their own, but probably two of them together. If it's giving me confidence and joy or profit, enjoy or profit and confidence or whatever, then it will work. And so, yeah, that's how it works.
That's what I believe, that's what I teach. So sustainability is so many things and it's a very delicate personal ecosystem for each one of us. Because what brings you joy and me, joy might be completely different. And the amount of income for you to be profitable and for me to be profitable might be completely different, too. Somebody working with a studio, with staff, or somebody working at home from a corner of their dining room table or whatever are very different. And so this will, again, it's an ecosystem. It's an evolution that will shift and change and evolve all the time. And what allows you to feel confident now in ten years time will be like, oh, man, I had no confidence around that then, really. And you can kind of go back and almost give yourself a hug and go, oh, that's incredible.
So, yeah, that might be a bit of a long answer to that question, but for me, that's where sustainability is.
I love it.
[00:48:16] Speaker A: I think it's great. And it's so true that you can't just have one thing. There are so many things. And that's why that's my favorite question to ask in these episodes, because everyone has a different answer. And I think it's just so interesting to hear all the different perspectives. So that's really brilliant. And I also want to know where people can go to follow you to keep learning from you.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: So I am actually going to be, I don't know when this episode actually goes live.
Probably the easiest thing to do is just say, you can find me on Instagram, which is at Ursula Kphoto. That's u r s u l A. But I will be running a masterclass at the end of February. A visibility masterclass. Show up and shine. So the details will be on Instagram, I guess. And I guess it just depends again when this podcast goes out. But if the podcast is live, when you listen back to this, like months from now or years from now, even, who knows? Then my Instagram account will hopefully still be there and be live and know have evolved into another version of my own business. And that's where you can find all the things, all the links will be there where you can find to my website, which is just Ursulah and kelly.com. So different ways that I support. And I think I've given you a link probably already. There's a link to my free camera confident guide that you can access there, too. So, yeah, there's different ways you can find me. But who knows what happens with social media? Who knows? As we evolve, what we decide to step away from? Yeah, stepping towards and stepping away from stuff.
[00:49:57] Speaker A: I'll add the links and then we'll see which ones still work, but I'm sure it's going to be fine.
[00:50:04] Speaker B: Yeah, we're always stepping closer to. I always like to think that we're stepping closer to something that's really important for us. And as we do that, sometimes we're stepping away from the stuff that no longer serves us. So again, that takes a lot of being bold and know it's true.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: I agree with that as well. I think it's important to not get stuck, to just keep going, do what feels right.
Thank you so much, Ursula. It's been a pleasure, and I'm so glad that we finally had the chance to do this.
[00:50:33] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me on the podcast and for all of you listening out there. Just keep on going, day after day after day. Remember, no excuses. Evolution.
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Brilliant.
[00:50:46] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: You just listened to an episode of sustainable photography. Please share this episode with a photographer you care about.
