[00:00:00] Speaker A: Today I'm going to introduce you to my friend Adamico. She is a photographer living here in Norway, but she is originally from Poland. We started working together around November of 2023. I think she worked with me one on one. And we also made a new website that launched about three, four months ago. And since launching it just in the first couple of weeks, she booked a few of her biggest packages. And her website is just climbing and climbing on Google and doing really well.
But just because you're doing really well in your business doesn't mean that you don't need support. It doesn't mean that you can't do even better. And today we'll have a mentor call live with you. Listening. Be sure to follow Ada on Instagram. You'll find her at Adamico and also check out her
[email protected].
you're listening to sustainable photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration and confidence building. I'm Ingvil Kolnas, the host of this podcast. And after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers, and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
Hi, and welcome to this podcast episode. Today it's a little bit different because it's a mentor call with one of my students, Ada Miko. And I can't wait for you to meet her. And, well, before I say anything, why don't you just say hi and who you are, Ada.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Hi, Ingvil. Thank you so much for this invitation.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: This was such a surprise. And I was very happy to say yes.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: I'm so excited.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Okay, so my name is Ada. I am originally from Poland, and I work as a photographer in Bergen. In Norway. I work mostly with weddings and with families. And what more can I say? I really love my job, and I've been a part of your mentor program, starting with one to one mentoring, since November, I think, or December. And yeah, it has really helped my business. And I really feel like this year I'm really booking, like, I really like all weddings I have and all clients that book me, they're really like, you know, my dream clients. And I just really love my work more and more and more. And it gives me so much joyous.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: I love that. And I feel like you can tell that the people you work with are your people because it just looks so aligned. And I think that's really amazing. And as I mentioned in the beginning, this is kind of like a mentor call that people get to listen in on. And today you wanted to talk about kind of a new idea. You have something new you want to start doing. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what that is?
[00:03:13] Speaker B: Okay. So lately I have been thinking quite a lot about which way I want my business to go or what would really be, like, a perfect scenario or what is kind of like the next step I really want to take.
And the first idea that came to me was introducing film photography, or, like, analog photography into my business. So I'm very well familiar with film photography, and I've been shooting both 35 and medium format for quite many years now. But I've been doing it mostly in free time. And I think, like, when it comes to film photography, like, I really feel it's just so aligned with my values, with the intentionality, if that's the word. Like, you know, it's just so intentional, like, you know, shooting just like one frame and being more, like having the limit of the frames that you can take and really being intentional about everything. And this is really why I love to shoot film. You know, it's all about, you know, this, like, being intentional and really accepting the. All the imperfections that come along and, you know, all the waiting process before you get your film scanned and developed. And I think it's all really exciting.
I did shoot film on one wedding last year, and I did like it. But my experience was that it's just practically very, very difficult because I already shoot with two bodies now. I use canon, both canon baddies and lenses, plus flash. It can be quite heavy. And then if you add to it, like, two. So it's like, I shoot with the 35 and 125 formats, analog. Then you end up with four cameras, three of which are quite heavy. And, you know, all this, like, you know, and changing film also, that takes time.
And I really enjoy shooting mostly with medium format. And then you get 15 frames per film, so you naturally have to change the film quite often.
So I did realize that in order to do that, I'm gonna need a. To have an assistant, somebody who can help me a little bit with, you know, like carrying the equipment or changing film or even holding a reflector, just more like, with the practical stuff. And I also noticed that there, I also have, like, a big blockage, you know, because for many years, I've been working on my own.
I've been just enjoying it so much. But at the same time, like, I do notice, like, you know, when the weather is bad, like carrying, like, holding an umbrella, you know, or, like, helping with changing light lenses or, like, you know, suddenly I want to use this camera or this camera. It just becomes a little bit difficult. And where the blockage kind of is, is in the money, because I do realize that having another person with me for the whole day, plus the costs of buying film, developing film, scanning film, this is going to increase my prices quite a lot. And I just noticed that there is a big blockage in there because I feel like my prices are already one of the highest on the market.
Would I dare to take it even one step farther? Like, would I dare that?
So this is why I thought that we can talk about this today.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. I love that. And I think one of the things that's very unique about you is that you're so intentional with everything you do, and you really put the artist side first and you're really good at kind of connecting with the people who want that as well. So I don't really see how it would be any different when it comes to film. But I do have a couple of ideas for you.
Of course, the mindset part is really important to talk about. But, you know, I also love talking about the practical solutions. And when it comes to introducing something new, which this is to check out the interest to see what people would be interested in actually getting from you, I think setting up a waitlist could be the way to go. Because if you say, hey, I'm thinking about this thing, it would work like this, and this is what you'd get, or this is the reason why are you interested? Sign up for the waitlist. And if you see that, okay, a bunch of people are signing up, then, you know, okay, there's something in here. And if no one signs up, then, okay, maybe this isn't something you need to worry about right now. But when that's said, I do think that there are different ways to go about it.
I have a couple of friends in the US who does film photography for weddings, and they used to do all film. Like, a wedding with them was all film, and now they've kind of changed it to be like, okay, so we'll do portraits with film, or just kind of do some sections of the wedding day with film so that they don't have to have all the camera buddies on them at all times. They can just kind of have them out for certain occasions. So maybe that could be something. So you're not promising the whole day to be all about film, but parts of it. And I think that could be something worth testing out for you as well as kind of to practice how it would actually work. Like, what if you just introduced it to some pieces or to some parts of the day, and then you could also hear from your clients when they get those. Like, how was that? Was there something that could have made that part run smoother?
Did you enjoy getting the film scans? What did you feel about them? Because the feeling around those could be quite different. And then you'd also. So not only would you get to test it for yourself, but you would also get some testimonials from your clients to say how cool it was. How does that sound?
[00:09:32] Speaker B: I think it sounds good.
Yeah. And with the waitlist, like, how do you see it on the website? I could have a note that it's like, how do you set up a waitlist?
[00:09:47] Speaker A: Good question.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Could you tell me more about that?
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yes. So, for example, you could have a banner like you have now on the top of your website where it says, I'm booking weddings for 2025. Now. It could say something like, would you be interested in adding film photography to your wedding day? Sign up here. Something like that. That's one way of kind of getting people to it. Maybe you could also have, like a section on your website that talks about film photography and you could get them to add their details. But basically what the waiting list section itself would be is a very short form with their name and email. And it says, sign up for the film photography waiting list here. And then you would get the name and the email and you would kind of add that to some kind of software on the backend. I think maybe you use Mailerlite at the moment.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So it would be kind of added to that list, but probably having a tag or a category or something added to it so that you know that. Okay, so these people, they're in the film photography section, and as soon as you're ready to add that or to promote it or whatever, then you would email these people and say, hey, you can now be the first one to add this. Do you want it? Or you can have it as an optional add on for couples who have already booked you, and you could have it for couples who haven't booked you yet but could be interested. So there's a few different ways you can do for the marketing aspect of it and introduction of it.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah. There's another thing that I was thinking about, like before, you know, I set up a waitlist, and before I say, oh, this is something that I do, I should actually have more material, like something to show them, because I think this is what changes a lot. You know, and maybe just like. So this would probably be like, you know, an investment from my side or just asking, like, any of this year's couples. Like, I offer this and this and this, and the only thing you have to pay for is basically, like, the cost of film or, I don't know, it's like, I don't take anything extra for that or. Because it's like sometimes, you know, it can be so abstract if I just say, oh, I do a film now, but they don't really, like, get what it really means if they're not maybe so much in this world.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Yes, I was thinking about that.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: I think so, too.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: And I think when we want to do something new, it can often be scary to make that first investment because if you were to try this. Yeah, you'd probably have to, you know, you wouldn't get paid for the first couple of ones you do because you'd have to try it out and test it and it could be an investment for you. And sometimes those investments pan out and sometimes they don't. I know that for me, I sometimes, you know, I want to try something new and then I have to make those initial investments before I can know, is this something that people are interested in or not? And when it comes to art, you can do whatever you want, but when you want to merge that with your business, you want to make sure that there is actually people out there interested in it.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: So I think that would be your first kind of step, just testing it out on people. And then you can see, is someone actually interested in this? And you have several weddings this year that you hopefully, probably can test it out on.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Sounds like a good first step. Absolutely.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Okay, cool. And then I actually also remembered that one of my friends who does film photography, Kristen sweeting, we're doing that study abroad workshop in Erlan in September, October. And you should come hang out with us one day because you can meet her. And she's probably got other people there whose photographing film and stuff, and that could be so cool because she's one of the best at doing that. She's been shooting film professionally for very many years, so I think you'd really enjoy that.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I follow her on Instagram, actually. I didn't know. Maybe I even found her for you. I just didn't realize it, but I remember.
Yeah, cool. September, October.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's in the last week of September in Eoland, and that's not far from you, so that could that could be really, really nice because I think talking with people who have done it, who tried it, and who knows what not to do and what to do, that could also be a good way to do it. So, yeah, definitely come join us. I'll talk to Kristen and let her know that you want to come.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also feel like, you know, with film, it's like, you know, it's like you really need to, like, once you start doing that, like, you really have to rely so much on your cameras. And usually like, you almost shoot film with only analog cameras. The cameras that is like my cameras, one is from eighties, the other one is from nineties, you know, so also like, you know, just like really making sure that everything is well because this is something that you already sell and it's like you really have to rely on it, you know? And this is also the scary part. This is also something you do have to include in your costs. And this is also what I feel like makes it a little scary. But of course, like, you know, having community who's also doing that and like seeing like what's their work for really in that, that would be super, super useful.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: And when it comes to like, because that was one of your worries. And the price increase that this would include, I think you can't know until you tried because I know that a lot of people want to think and want to believe that, oh, there's someone out there. Whatever you want to do, whatever you want to charge, there's someone who's willing to pay. I think you can't really know that unless you've test it. And you can do it like doing some research or setting up a waitlist and see because you have to do some kind of marketing around it to say, this is something I want to do. But when that's sad, I don't think there's anything wrong with increasing your prices as well because especially in Norway and probably the whole of Scandinavia, there's a lack of those higher end photographers. It's like most people are just stuck in that middle or even high middle level and then there's not that many outside of that, there's not that many who do something different. And if you were to add on film photography like this, that would be completely new and completely different. And that in a way, the way I've seen it and the way that I've had clients work on new offers before, it's like either no one does it, so that means no one knows it's possible and it can be more of a struggle, but it can also be something where it's like, oh, this sounds really cool, we want this, but you can't know unless you try, and you don't know how it's going to work for you and the people who follow you and want you because you're quite popular, there's a lot of people wanting to work with you. So there's something to be said for that as well. It's not like you're brand new at photography, wanting to do something new that no one's ever done before. You're established and you have a lot of people wanting to work with you, and that gives you more flexibility in terms of trying new things as well.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like, also this part, like, I have seen, like, you know, the blockage in there that there is like, you know, every time it's like I'm trying to make this step, whether it's like, you know, really standing for my style or, like, doing something that nobody in Norway does, even though I know that people abroad, they do it. And it's like the photographers that I really love, and it's like they're really, like, the big inspiration for me from different countries, they do that there is like, this blockage and it comes like, oh, maybe people in Norway don't want it, but of course it's bullshit. It's not true. But it's interesting just to observe these thoughts because it's like, it's really a mindset thing. And it's like, it's really like, it's so many blockages, so it's really interesting to look at them and try to see where do they come from and why are they there, and what can I do to actually make a step into reaching this goal or dream.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think you're right. When it comes to people doing things outside of Norway, and then no one here does it, people are kind of behind in Norway. It takes us a while. You can see a trend happening in the US, and then a few years later, it might come to Norway.
You could be kind of the person who's in front and you're paving the way and starting that trend. But it could also mean, because people in Norway are a little bit slower at adapting newer things and newer ideas, it could take a while before it catches on. But if you really want to do it, and if you're willing to do that, then I don't really see any reason why it couldn't catch on.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: So it depends on how quickly you need it. To pan out, because I think that is the problem. Often when someone wants to do something as a photographer, we often have that, like, oh, it has to happen now. And just because it doesn't happen within the first few months or even first couple of years doesn't mean that it won't. But you have to have the will and the stamina to stick, to stick with it, because these new things, they can take a while before people start being interested in them.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's absolutely something that I can also notice. It's like every time it's like me really showing what I do, for example, me standing for this, really advocating for these biggest packages that I've had and really, like, you know, showing how it can look. If you really book me for twelve, if you book this biggest package, because it's always been my favorite package, you know, 12 hours, it's long day, but it's like you really get covered everything, and then, and then the, and then the couple, it's, you know, they can just basically relax. They don't have to think about the time, and they get everything covered. And I can feel like now it's. Now it's like people who get in touch with me that this is exactly what they want because this is what they've been seeing on my website and this is what I've been writing about. So I also feel like, because already, film is something that I really believe in. And it's really, as I said, in the philosophy of my business, where I really do believe in that. It's like a part of me already. So it's like the moment I start really showing that and, like, you know, standing for Sharita on my instagram, writing about it, like, I feel that people, like, at some point, people are just gonna get it. They're just gonna be like, oh, yeah, this is what we want. You know, because I've been just seeing, like, how it's, how it's, how it's happening with different things in my business, how it attracts people.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think you just said it now, how it's easy for you now to sell what you want to, it's because you actually believe in it. You don't have any doubt around it, you know, that this is what you want to do. And I think that is where a lot of people might get stuck, is when they're like, oh, I don't know if it's worth it. I don't know if I can church this much. I don't know. And that doubt is gonna kind of get infected onto potential clients where it's like, oh, they don't really believe in it themselves, so why should I? And if you're struggling or hesitant to say your prices and to kind of ask people if they're interested and to explain what it's all about, then it's going to be a lot harder for you. So whether that is because you don't believe in it or if it's because you're really desperate at booking clients, then you will struggle. And you don't fall into any of those categories because your business is really built around what you believe in and what you value. It's all about art and creativity and connecting with people who want that same thing. And then it's going to be so much easier for you to get whatever it is you need to and want to.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: And talking about it now, like, I really can feel like how, like for me, what has been the process, like with other things in my business that also came so organically. And of course, as you said, it's like the results, you can't see them immediately, but it's like you can really see the fruits of them in a time. But it's like really standing for it and really being like, also where, okay, this is the investment I have to make a. And, you know, in case of film, like, I do have cameras, but it's like, you know, buying the film and developing, it's like, this is going to be on me for a while, but if this is something that I want and it's like, it's almost like it is investment in my business, but it's also investment. All the fun. Really?
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: And I feel like, you know, the practicalities of it, I'm just going to figure it out. And I really like this idea that you said, you know, maybe just like having one digital and one film, or like just doing film for this section and like, really just setting aside the camera, you know, but then also like having a very reliable gear is super important.
That's really helpful. I'm already getting like an image of this in my head.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, that's so good. Like you just said, you need to just do that investment and pay whatever that cost is if you want to do this. Because if you're hesitant to make that investment, how on earth could you possibly convince your clients, clients that it's a good idea if you don't even want to do it? So I think that's very true. Whether it's about this or anything else in your business, if you don't want to invest in your business and in getting to the next step. Why should someone believe in you?
[00:23:58] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
That's so true.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: If you want to work with me, too, you can head on over to Instagram. You'll find melkolness. That's I n g v I l d k o l n e s. Or you can go to my website, engvilkolnaz.com waitlist, and sign up there.
But you also had something else that you. That's kind of the same thing where it's about your limitations and the way that you think that. Can I do this? Is this possible? How does it work? And that was about maybe having someone work under your brand.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So I've had this. I've had this. This is an idea that I've had for a few years now, and it's kind of like cooking in my head, but I haven't really made any serious step towards that. But in the past weeks, it came back again quite strong. And it's because I am pregnant with twins.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: Yay. Twins.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yes. Two little babies, as you might imagine. I think having twins is the shock for everybody in the beginning because nobody really expects that.
And what it changed for me is that. So the twins are coming in December, so it's outside of the season.
And I'm really happy about that because it makes it possible for me. Like, I can still shoot all the weddings this year and from May next year, I already can work a little bit. But I do feel like, this sense of, like, you know, having kind of, like a backup plan or, like, you know, I don't. Like, I don't have children yet. I don't know how it's going to be. I've never had one child, never had twins. And, I mean, there are, you know, I've been talking with so many photographers also, like, the parents of twins and just mothers and fathers and, you know, how have they been, like, kind of, you know, solving that and.
But I really. Every time I come to a conclusion that it's like, I don't know if this is going to be my story. I have no idea what my story will be. So even though, like, we do have a goal, like, to. With my partner, like, and I really believe that if we're gonna kind of have a goal, an intention, then this is going to happen, that I can still. I can start shooting weddings already from May, but still, I think, you know, there's. There's a few clients who booked me for 12 hours, like, especially in the springtime. And this is something that raises some questions for me. You know, how is it going to be, like, am I going to be rested enough?
There's one wedding that's actually outside of Bergen, and, you know, all these questions arise, like, is it going to be okay for me to be away from my two little children for such a long time? And then, you know, this question of, like, you know, could it be possible for me to actually have somebody who can work under my name, somebody who I could this year already start training, for example, somebody who could just become my trainee, just post, like, photography trainee? I would say somebody who I can train and maybe, like, starting with spring next year, somebody who could, for example, share a day with me. If I can do just, like, five or 7 hours, then I'm gonna feel very safe into giving this other person, like, the remaining hours of the day, knowing that they know how I like, what equipment I used. So it's like, I really want this person to know. I mean, it's not also the technical stuff, but, like, you know, it's like, you know, so the connection with people, how to. Because people have to feel comfortable with you, like, not only the couple, but all the guests, you have to become a part of the wedding. And so all this, like, everything. And I don't know. And I. But I be thinking about it yesterday that. That I think there are actually people out there who, they just want to shoot weddings. Like, they don't want to do the marketing. They don't want to find clients themselves.
It's usually, like, wet or, like, you know, photography jobs. They're like, you know, it could be probably just their part time job because it's Saturdays or Fridays, so they can still, like, you know, do the, you know, nine to five job Monday to Friday. So this could be their side gig. And they don't really have to do, like, they don't need a website. They, you know, they get all the training from me.
I know one photographer, actually, who's done something like this before, so I'm gonna take in touch with him and see, like, how he's been doing that and how it worked out for him, but still, like, there's this block. It's like doing something so new, and I know that there's so many photographers again abroad who's. Who do it, you know, work with, like, you know, a second shooter or have, like, an assist, like a intern. Like an intern. But still there's such a blockage in me, you know, like, how do I achieve it? Never done that before, like, how do I go about that?
[00:29:09] Speaker A: So do you feel that your blockage is due to, like, the, how do I do it? Or is it possible to do it?
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Like, it's all about, like, how do I do it? Like how. It's a, I think it's a lot about how do I do it. I think it's quite possible to do it, but I feel like if I train somebody in the beginning, if I really, like, give them all the knowledge that I have that I learned that I gained by myself in the last seven, eight years working with weddings, then I really need, it's like, I would like this person to stay with me probably for two or three years because this is only when it's going to be worth it for me. And I also don't want somebody to stay with me just because they have a contract. Like, I want them to stay with me because they actually do want it. So it's like they do need to have, you know, a profit from it and it's, and thus, and it has to be a person that it works well for me. You know, it's like I get so much from that and I don't stay here just because I have a contract.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: And, you know, this, like, motivation part, it's like, this seems like such a, it's like, how do I do it? You know, how do I lead somebody? How do I, it's like being in the position of a leader, really.
And this is a kind of like the unknown for me.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: It is, yeah.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: And it's scary. And it's scary.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I can understand how it's scary, but it's also giving you more opportunities both to be able to rest and have the time that you need at home. But it's also an opportunity to build your brand and build your business.
And, well, I know of a few people who's done it, even in Norway, so I know that it's possible and it is something that, now that I think about it, the people I know who've done it, they've all done it when they've been pregnant. So it's like, it does seem like a thing where you know, that business is going to come and you don't want to, you don't want to, you don't want your clients to miss out and you also don't want your business to, to suffer. So I think, well, you're definitely not alone.
And I think in this part of what you're considering as well, going back to your, your values, what you value is really important because you're going to need to find someone who shares your values more than anything. You can train someone to be a good photographer and do all those things, but you can't give someone new values. So I think it all begins there. They would have to be aligned with your brand as well. They would need to feel like, oh yeah, this is right for me, and then you wouldn't have to worry so much about the connection and all that.
That goes without saying when you know that your values are aligned. Of course, I do think you're going to need some like a good contract and a good agreement, as you say. I know that you don't want them to stay with you because they're required to do so, but I do think that that is necessary regardless. And then not just so that you can hold it against them because I know that that is not what you're all about, but a good agreement is there so that you upfront can go through it and be like, okay, so this is what I expect from you and this is what you expect from me. So that to make sure that there is a balance there because you are going to give them everything that you know and from them you're expecting them to show up and behave like you need them to and provide the experience to your clients that is expected.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I do agree. I do agree with that because it's like, you know, also this like, this like thing, like the motivation really has to be there and the values have to be there because it's like, it's the worst thing that can happen if somebody works under my name and they don't show up. Because for like they, I don't know, one or two days before they say, of course it's like everybody can get sick, but it's like, I don't know, like I never had to cancel a wedding before. You know, like a few days before. I never got sick. I was never, if I would start getting sick, I would just do everything to really be there. And this is also what I'm doing now in pregnancy. If I work Saturday, I rest Sunday, Monday and Friday before, which makes my week work week very short. But it's like I do everything so that I'm going to be good for Saturday and I want this person also to have the same motivation as me so that it's so important for them that they're going to be there. You know, and this is scary, like really trusting another person like this, like, oh, big time.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: Really it is. And I think when you're explaining it like this. I also think that doing the work, like, on commission is probably the best way to go. Like, they're getting paid for showing up and being there that day. So that it's not like if I were you, I wouldn't hire someone to have them as your employee. I would be do some kind of commission deal where it's like they're a subcontractor to you. And when they show up and do the work and deliver the photos to you, that's when, that's how they get paid. Find some kind of way to do that. A lot of people, I almost want to say most people become a photographer or suddenly find themselves being a photographer because they love photography. Very few people love the business side.
I don't think you are necessarily going to find or going to have a problem finding someone who cares more about photography than all the other stuff, but you're going to have to figure out, like, okay, so what am I okay with this other person doing? Am I okay with them doing marketing on their side, like, having their own separate business? Or is that not okay with me? Is the work they do for me? Is that the only work I am okay with? If so, then that might be harder for you to find someone. And how is it going to feel to you if.
Because when you are training someone, they are going to shoot kind of like you and they're probably going to edit a bit like you, even though you probably want to do all the editing in that part.
How is that going to feel to you if you suddenly have, like, a mini you in Bergen, which is probably going to be where you're going to be?
How do you think that would feel? Would that feel like, oh, I'm creating my own competition, or is that okay?
[00:35:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I've been thinking about it because, like, first I did feel like it's like I do. I really don't want to kind of create my own, like, you know, I had the biggest competition for myself, which I, which I would be doing, of course, but at the same time, I really feel like, I really do believe, like, in the bottom of my heart that everybody has something unique to bring to the table. And even though it's like, you know, I can, you know, I think, like, you know, a contract that we have, it was also like, like, what is included and, like, what knowledge can I actually share with them, like, you know, regarding editing and, like, really, you know, as you said, I want to do editing myself, so they deliver the photos to me and I did and I do the editing, but still I was thinking to include like, you know, this editing session. So like, you know that I can record like how do I edit? I can show them how I edit but still encouraging them to really when it comes to edit coloring and all the tones and just to really go their own way, not necessarily giving away my presets, but just showing how I do it and my attendant.
That's a question, Marley. Because it's like I use a lot of time for editing because I believe I really want my claim to have an amazing end result. And I'm aware that this photos that will be looked at for like another hundred years, if not more. I hope so. You know, the wedding album and everything. So I'm really, I have this like, you know, I do it in such a, I do like two quality checks after I'm done like editing.
And this is something really me and is it something that I really want to give away to somebody else? You know, I don't know. And it's like at the same time not, it's like, like I really enjoy sharing so much. It's like I would not like, could I say no? I can't tell you how I do it.
I really don't want to do it. It's like, it's so scary as well. It's like, no, it's not another country. I'm not going to tell it. It's really scarcity mindset and it's like.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: Ah, yeah, I understand everything you're saying. And well, first I have to start with the practical side.
Well, you can show them kind of how you edit without showing how you do it to accomplish your style. Because what if you, instead of showing them your style, would help them to find their style? Like you could help them develop their own style because everyone kind of shoots a little bit different and have, you could show them how you do things to get the look that you need for your weddings. But then you could also have part of your education or training be like, okay, let's find your style and let me help you develop your style. And then, especially when it comes to editing, really get what's unique about them there. Does that sound like something you would enjoy? Yeah.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: And actually I just realized I'm a part of this. India earl's like a private account and she does editing calls with us. So it's like sometimes 3 hours. She edits and she talks and we look at how she edits, but it's like my style is very different from her regardless. Like it's like what I learned from that is more like, it's the practical things, but also things about the light or like, you know, about how I work in highlights and shadows. And now thinking about it, it's like, it's, I. You look at my style, it's completely different than India's. Even though she's like, you know, I do learn from her how to edit.
So this necessarily might not be, like a problem in there now, when I think about it.
[00:39:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think it'll be a problem either. And one thing that I think, again, going back to your values, if you find someone who shares your values, they're going to think the same that you do. And let's say that I love your style and I try to be you. I'm not going to be your competition. I'm going to be like the first price version of you. And by first price, that's like, like the generic branding that one of our supermarkets in Norway has, like the cheap version of a product. And that's not going to be a real competition. It might kind of look like you, but it's not going to be you. And if your actual clients, the ones that want to book you, they want you because you're you, they don't want, like a lookalike.
[00:40:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. That's so true.
[00:40:42] Speaker A: When I do my education, my courses and stuff, it's not like I hold back. I don't hold back on things in case someone, oh, what if they decide they want to do something similar to me? I need to hold back and not really give away the most important things. It's like, well, if you want to do what I do, then I'm not going to stop you. But if they were trying to do everything and look like me, that would just be really, really, really weird. But if they were putting their own spin on it, then it doesn't really matter. Then we're reaching different people anyway. So I think we're too scared of other people. And if anything, I think having more people who does kind of like what we do is building us up and it's creating more of a market rather than like taking away from us. And the more scared you are of doing what you're supposed to, it just hurts you, really. If you're scared to say things and share things because you are thinking more about what would your competitors do, that's just going to hurt you because your clients aren't going to see it either. So I think sharing more is generally speaking the solution because people are going to look to you as the original, as the, as the main person to learn from and to come to and to enjoy that kind of work. So, yeah, maybe you're going to get some copycats and some other people who does something similar to you, but it comes along.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: Like, it's also, it's included in the package because I've been already experiencing that. You know, it does. And it's like, if you really take, like, you know, this position of, like, really, like, if there are people, people who's gonna feel inspired by you, they're always gonna be this copycats. Like, it's just included in blueprice, kind of.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: You know, it's just how it is.
[00:42:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it is.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: Okay. So another thing that I was thinking about is, I think in this situation, we have to say, like, all the jobs you get are through me.
Would that be okay? Or is this right? Or it's like. Because it's probably, like, it's a question. I think it's going to be quite a vital question. Can I take weddings on my own still, like, under my own name?
And there I feel like, especially maybe in those two years or something, like, I would like this person to actually exclusively work for me.
Because if I set this boundary in there and then I also say, like, you know, if you do that, then it's like, you don't need your own website.
You can have. It's like, okay, it's still a question mark. I don't know. Let's just hypothetically think about it. If, like, I say you don't take any jobs on your own, like, everything what you get is kind of, for me, then they don't need their own website. They don't need their own Instagram account, at least for the first two years. And I also don't have to, like, do this, like, business part with them because this is also, like, you know, everything. What I, for example, learn from you about the business. And I learned, like, you know, throughout, like, all these years and, you know, all the sales and marketing, if I split this, like, being a photographer and being a business person, running your business, then I think it would make things also easier if I just, if I find this person who just wants to learn how to shoot, learn how to edit, learn how to be a photographer, and after a contract is out as I go, it's like when you leave the nest and this is where you can go and have your own website made. I don't know. It's just an idea. I'm still brainstorming about it because it's really. Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:38] Speaker A: I think brainstorming is brilliant and I completely understand where you're coming from, but I do have a couple of objections that I want us to talk about. One is they would still need to have their own business, and they would still need to have their own knowledge about running a business, because if they're working for you as a subcontractor, they will need to have their own business. If not, you'll need to employ them, which is triggering a whole lot of other stuff on your end, which you can do if you want to, but that is more risky because then. And they can just say, oh, I'm not showing up for any more work, and you would still have to pay them and it's risky. It's risky. So I would be a little bit hesitant on doing that. So that would mean that they would need their own business.
I think it's also going to be a little bit harder for you to find someone if they don't have their own instagram and if they don't have their own website, because maybe not if they didn't have their own website, but if they didn't have Instagram, it would be harder for you to find them. Probably. They would probably be very inexperienced, I'm guessing.
But maybe you would say you don't do weddings, but you could do other things. Because unless it's really easy for you to know upfront, like, this is the amount of work you would get through me, it's probably hard to get them to agree to it because for all they know, they wouldn't get anything. Because what would you do if a wedding got cancelled? Because you can't promise them you're going to get paid unless you're willing to risk paying them out of your own pocket. Because suddenly all the weddings were canceled, just going back to the pandemic and how that was when so many things got cancelled. So those are just my thoughts.
So what do you think?
[00:46:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I do agree on this point that it's like, I also don't want somebody who has absolutely no, I want somebody else with, like, initiative, somebody who's been like, really who loves photography, who's been already sharing their work and, you know, it's again, like, values and a person that's similar to me in that case.
So, yeah, I do agree about that. Let me just see. There was more you had. Yeah. And also maybe like this, limiting them, like, you know, that they get weddings only through me. And being very clear also about this, like how the process works that, for example, like, first one or two weddings, like, they only maybe assist me and they only observe. And then, like, you know, when we eat dinner or if we, like, maybe like, we have like an hour after wedding, like, you know about the questions, like, why did you do this and this and this? So maybe, I don't know. For example, two weddings like this, they're only observer. They only hold the factory. Like, they learn everything. Like it this way. Then it's like, next two weddings or three, they shoot together with me.
So they can also, like, you know, already, like, you know, test this, like, photography stuff.
It's just, the number is just. It's, it's. I don't know how many weddings gonna be. It's just an idea. And then, like, you know, when I feel like, okay, and now you can assist me, and now I can give you this part of the wedding and maybe the last 5 hours or, like, here. Okay, and on this wedding, you don't assist me. Just do whatever you want. You free. You don't really have responsibility.
I have the responsibility. And then just, like, you know, show me what you do or like, something like this. And then hopefully after a while, I could also, like, have them under my brand and they can get, like, full day weddings from me. Like, being quite clear about this process, I feel would also be, yeah, would help it a lot. And so that showing that you will get, like, this, full weddings at some point, if this is what you want. It's just I really feel like, you know, this, like, training in the beginning is quite necessary. And also it kind of fits into my idea of, like, the 2025 because I do want a person who could support me for, you know, a few hours or maybe even be my backup is something, you know, suddenly comes up idea? I don't know.
[00:49:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a really good idea. Like, you could do, for example, an increase in payments. Like, when you're just observing, this is what you get. When you're shooting and taking over, this is what you get. And when you do full day under my brand, this is what you get. Like, you'd have, like, a, like, different steps with increases in how much they would get paid.
I think that's a really good idea. But the way that you're explaining it, it does sound like you want to get started on this now. So you should try to look for this person pretty soon. So put some feelers out and see. Does anyone know of anyone? Could you be the right person to work with me and maybe not just limit them and saying like, oh, you can't shoot any weddings. But explain why. Because as soon as someone understands why, it's a lot easier to.
And what if they already have weddings booked for this year or next year? How would you deal with that? Because then maybe they're too far along in the kind of person you want to work with. But yeah, I would start with asking on Instagram and in a couple of Facebook groups if anyone's interested and see what kind of people are interested.
[00:50:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds good. Just a quick question. Because it's like, in my mind, maybe it's completely wrong just because I am actually teaching them in the beginning. Like, would they, because it's like, you know, it's an education. So would they actually get paid for being there as like a trainee when they have this, like, you know, maybe after each wedding, like they have like one or 2 hours mentor session when they can ask all the questions. Because I, in my mind, I was thinking, just because I'm giving them all this knowledge that I have, I was like, okay, maybe like, of course, when they actually start working, then of course it's like, I do agree, it's like this is where you get paid. But when you're kind of a trainee under me, do they get paid?
You know what I mean?
[00:51:04] Speaker A: I definitely know what you mean. And there's not a right or wrong answer here. I think the more loyal people you want, the more you have to pay them. So I think once you start asking questions and start looking for people, then I think you're going to see what kind of people show up. Because I've had tons of inquiries for, from people wanting to second shoot with me. And of course they want to do it for free just to get the experience. But are they necessarily willing to stay with me long term and do all the things? Not so sure. So I think you can't necessarily know and settle the terms until you've figured out who's interested. But if you were starting a new job, like an actual job where you're employed, of course you'd expect to get paid during the training. So I think it all depends on who you can find and who you are interested in having and listening to their terms as well. Like, what will it take for you to want to do this? Because as you say, you don't want them to take on any assignments or any weddings for like two years. And then asking them to work for free is also a bigger ask. When they can't take on any, they can't make any money on their end anyway. So it really depends. And maybe you don't want them to shoot weddings, but they can do other kinds of assignments. So I think you can't know the terms until you've started looking for people to see and having a couple of discussions and seeing like, oh, what are your terms and how can we agree on something?
[00:52:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's also what I've been thinking, like, really listening to the other side because, like, I'm standing on one side and what does the end from my side. This seems logical, of course, if you're getting education from me. And I also answer your questions, don't get paid, but still, like, there's like, you know, there's a human on the other side as well. And I really want them to be. To stay motivated, just to want them to be with me and work with me, you know, so it's really, it's a lot of this, like, you know, the humanity, connection and dynamics and motivation and, like, you know, clear communication that has to be established at the same and trust, mutual trust.
And, you know, I was actually thinking to, like, approach it, kind of like how we build a profile of this, like, ideal client. I was kind of, like, thinking, like, you know, when I, when I set out to search for this person, I can kind of, like, have an idea already, like, you know, who they are and really, like, you know, speak to them as if to my ideal client. I already have, like, some ideas for their recruiting process.
Kind of like what I would like to hear from you or show me, I don't know, tell me about ten favorite photos you took or why do you love them or things like this to really connecting more on this deeper level, which is just so important for me.
[00:54:10] Speaker A: I think that's a really good idea. I definitely think you can create a profile on them, write down some questions that you want to know about them, and then you can have them email you, whether you put out some information on Instagram or I can think of a couple of Facebook groups that could work for this kind of purpose where it's like, what you want and who you're looking for to see. Is this you, or do you know anyone that fits this profile? Reply to these questions via email and then see who you get. And then you're probably going to want to have meetings with more than just one person just to see, like, how do they compare. And because this is a big undertaking, it's a big commitment both for you and for them. So I would rather you start now and take your time rather than suddenly having to hurry.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I do agree. I do agree.
[00:55:10] Speaker A: And communications is going to be key. Just making it really clear what's expected of them and what's expected of you in return.
[00:55:18] Speaker B: And also giving them space, like this free space. Like, if there is something wrong, like, I need to know, kind of like, if you feel like, you know, that this is not working, because, like, if it's a person who maybe has problems with sharing that stuff, like, it's just not, it's, it's almost like a romantic relationship or like an intimate relationship, you gotta talk about stuff when you work so closely together and you really have to have this openness to it because it's like, that's the first time I'm doing it. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna make mistakes. No. And it's the same for them. So it's also just this, like, establishing this communication, so it's such a fundament.
[00:56:01] Speaker A: And maybe you should also speak to someone who has been this person who's worked under someone's brand before as well. Like, how was that to them? What was good and what was bad, so that you can avoid making the same kind of mistakes. I don't remember who it was, but I spoke with someone who had been under someone's brand and they hadn't had the best experience. So definitely speak to someone who knows what it's like to be on the other side. That could be a good idea.
[00:56:27] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So talk with people who borrow on both sides, kind of.
[00:56:32] Speaker A: Yes. And know about their long term goals, know what they want a few years down the road. Because if, you know, it's a really, really ambitious person, then maybe, I don't know, it's just different if they're just like, oh, I always want to just second shoot, or I want to be the next you, because it all depends. So figure out who they are and what they really want.
[00:57:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And this is why, like, immediately when I started working that I was like, I had this vision of maybe a person who already has a nine to five job, but it's still so, and it works well for them, but they love photography, and they would really, and they maybe have capacity and have a will to actually have a second, like a part time job that would be weekends and Saturdays and evening, and I. And it's a well paid job as well. Or like, at least, like, the goal is going to be like, it's gonna be like this, or like, it doesn't have to be, but something like this, you know, as you said, like, if it's somebody who, like, really, you know, wants to get out of this contract that we have as soon as possible, because they're gonna go their own way and build their own brand and, like, be so much into the, you know, me, me. It's maybe not the match exactly.
[00:57:55] Speaker A: And you have to figure out, do they have to have their own equipment? Will it have to be canon, like you shoot, because if you have to invest in extra equipment, then you don't have to pay them as much. But there's more costs upfront for you. All these things you'd have to figure out.
But again, I think it all comes down to finding the right person and figuring out the terms around that person, because all this is just, like, logistics and the person is going to be key.
[00:58:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think creating, like, an ideal intern Persona, it's such a good idea. Maybe like, you know, how we create this mood board. Maybe also, like, just draw this person. I have, like, have, like, a photo of this person with these, like, traits. Yeah, I really believe in that and I can see how it's been working, this manifestation part in my business. So I'm gonna try that for sure.
[00:58:52] Speaker A: Oh, I love that. That sounds like a good idea. Do you have any final questions for me?
[00:58:58] Speaker B: I think that's it. I think there's a lot to, I mean, I got a lot more clarity from that. That's for sure. That's for sure. Now it's just, you know, I just have to start making the first steps and, like, you know, stay really motivated and, you know, just go for it and see where it takes me.
[00:59:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you have to get clear on what you do next and then you just have to start. I don't think this is, it's not going to get any easier if you wait. So just do the first little things now. Get clear on the profile of the person you want to work with and start putting out some posts and see how it goes. And really same with the film photography. Add on, start talking about it and see who could be interested or ask. No, you don't really need to ask them. Probably you can just show up, just bring your camera to the next wedding and see how it goes.
[00:59:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Feeling into more like, oh, their style is so. They would love it. Okay, so I'm gonna do it for them.
[01:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm really excited for you, for everything that's happening with you now, both the babies and wanting to add on more.
I would say doing more film photography is more like taking it another step in the more artistic direction and then just growing your brand and adding onto it with possibly a new person is so exciting.
[01:00:24] Speaker B: Just really excited. Really excited about what's going to come. It's going to be amazing.
[01:00:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be amazing.
[01:00:31] Speaker B: And I'm really happy to have you by my side still. You know, now it's. Now I'm a part. I'm in the mentor group, mentoring, not one to one anymore, but it's just really exciting and I feel a lot of safety there as well. And like, oh, that's so nice. You know, that I have somebody by my side who can support me also. This process is just so precious. Really?
[01:00:55] Speaker A: Yeah, because it can't be a lonely thing to do when you're working on your own. So I think that's how I feel as well. When I have support like that. You have someone who knows what you're doing and who can check in and you can say, like, oh, this just happened. What do I do now? Or I think it's more support rather than, oh, I have to do all this work because I think that's what a lot of people think. Like, oh, I have to do all these things now. And it's like, no, you just have someone who's in your corner ready to be there when you need them.
[01:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
[01:01:33] Speaker A: Okay. Thank you so much, Ara. We will speak soon, and I can't wait to hear another update about this.
[01:01:38] Speaker B: Thank you so much. That was amazing.
[01:01:41] Speaker A: Thank you.
[01:01:42] Speaker B: Bye bye.
[01:01:45] Speaker A: You just listened to an episode of sustainable photography. Please share this episode with the photographer you care about.
