Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to sustainable photography. This is episode 147. I'm Inguil Kulnes, and today you're going to meet my friend Katie. I met Katie when she did study abroad with me and Kristin sweeting, and I was just so inspired by her, everything she said and did, and I just knew that I had to ask her to come on the podcast. Katie's actually a former counselor turned Budor photographer. She brings her mental health background into her photography, making sure that her clients feel safe and supported and loved throughout their Budor experience. Katie's passion really is helping people feel empowered and comfortable in their own skin. I'm so excited for you to meet her.
You're listening to sustainable photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration, and confidence building. I'm Ingmal Colonel, the host of this podcast, and after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers, and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. I was a saying in the introduction how we just went traveling in Norway together and we just had such a good time. And now I want everyone else to get to know you as well.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Thank you so much. I'm so excited. I've been looking forward to this. And, yeah, traveling with you is the best. I miss Norway. I just. I guess I need to come back.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you do. I think you do. You really seem to, like, thrive in, like, the colder weather and.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I loved it. And when I came back, it was a little warm and toasty here. And I do. I just feel so good in the cold.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think we did some things, like, we challenged ourselves during that trip and I was just really good.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it was awesome.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: But can you just say a little bit about how you got into photography?
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So my first career was in counseling and education. So when I graduated college, I went right into grad school to be a school counselor. So I worked in a high school with students, and I mainly worked on mental health, college application process, academic support.
And then while I was doing that, I was also working on getting my license as a private practice counselor part time and in planning. I got married in 2016. And through planning my own wedding, I really fell in love with our wedding photographer. And she just really inspired me. And I've always loved photography. I've always been the person with a camera. So I kind of thought, like, what if? And started to see the possibilities of doing something outside of education, which I wasn't totally happy in to begin with. Yeah. So that's, like, initially, that was me, like, dipping my toe into photography. Thought that I wanted to be a wedding photographer.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I think weddings is something that is not an easy way to start, but it's a very common way to start. Like, you kind of just really enjoy that kind of production side of it. Like, being a part of something really big once in a lifetime, but it's not really for everyone.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And Boudoir seems just, like, so much fun.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the best.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: How did you start with boudoir? Like, how did that happen?
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Yeah, so I was doing photography maybe, like, two ish years, and I was doing everything. I was working as an associate for, like, a larger wedding production company. I was taking on, like, family sessions, really anything. And a lot of you may know that when you work a full time job and then part time photography, it's very easy to get burned out.
And it was around Valentine's Day that I started seeing other people sharing about, like, boudoir mini sessions. And I just thought to myself, that could be so fun. That looks so fun. And so I decided to go for it. It was just, like, one of my moments of bravery. And I think that mini session sold out, like, three spots. And I was so nervous. I was so, so nervous to do it. I had watched a few, like, posing videos and practice. So my three clients came that day, and at the end of the day, I remember just thinking to myself, this is exactly what I want to do. That was so much fun. Like, I just felt such a warmth in interacting one on one with people and feeling like, I think I'm an introvert at heart, too. And just working in weddings felt so big, and you really have to be, like, an extrovert to do that. And working one on one with women was just. It was just so fun. It felt like the most fun girl hang ever. And I think I actually said at the end of the day, this is it. This is all I want to do.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: Wow, that sounds just so wonderful to have found a thing that is almost meant for you.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it feels really meant to be.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: And you kind of mentioned burnout and how juggling two different careers in a way, it can be really stressful. What's your take on having a sustainable business?
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I think in the beginning, my focus was learning my camera, learning the business, getting clients, and I really didn't think about what was sustainable. And now I think I'm, like, four years in with boudoir two years of previous photography, so maybe like six years later. I think it's really important to have a strong foundation in your pricing, a strong foundation in your values and what you want your life to look like. Because for me, I do not want my life to be three shoots a day, five days a week, six days a week. It's really important to me that I preserve my energy so that when I am one on one with my clients, I'm giving them like my whole heart and my whole focus.
So I think setting your business up in a way that allows you time, space, freedom, and usually at the foundation of that is strong pricing and strong boundaries.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really important. And you just touched on something that not a lot of people think about. It's how having sustainable pricing, like actual well thought out pricing, is also there for. For you to be able to give your energy to your clients and not just having to split it up between like ten different clients. Like, you can pour it all into that one client and give them the best possible experience.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's something that is so important to me, because even when I was doing, I think my sweet spot is doing one session a week, one or two a week. In the beginning, I was doing like three a week and that felt like too much. And at the end of the day, I realized that the people who are going to have a negative impact from that are going to be my clients. And that's the last thing I want. I want them to feel, like, really loved and really special. I want them to walk into my studio and feel like this is the only client I have all year, and it's all about them.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: Oh, that's so nice.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Do you think that your background with being a therapist, has that done anything to how you treat your clients and how you kind of approach boudoir photography? You think?
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm really grateful for my background. When I left my job, I sort of had this moment that was like, why did I spend so much money on grad school? I don't know if I'll ever go back to counseling, but I realized that I use my counseling skills so much as a photographer. Especially in boudoir.
Women come in with a unique set of insecurities, experiences, and I. I think being just like, aware of the emotion that goes into it, trauma informed, is really important.
It comes in handy. And, yeah, I think my background in counseling definitely makes it more of a unique experience, especially in the way that I prepare my clients as well. They feel really supported through the experience and it's definitely more than a photo shoot. It's definitely more than just sexy photos. It's sort of an experience in self love and knowing your value and finding your power. And there's a lot of, like, specific things I do to build that into the process.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Can you share some of that? Because I'm sure that a lot of people, when they go to do a Buddha session, that they're like, I'm so nervous. Or even when they're, like, looking on your website to try to figure out if they can do it and just kind of, what do you do to kind of calm them down and make them feel confident?
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it starts at the initial inquiry, like, making sure that we're a really good fit for each other.
Most of my clients, I would say, find me, whether it's through Google, on my website, social media. So I try and show up really authentically. So when my clients are reaching out, they know that we're probably a good fit for each other. And then once we chat, so I give people the opportunity to talk on the phone. I am not a huge phone person, so I also give them the opportunity to chat via email as well.
And once they're ready to book, they're supported. From the moment that they hit submit on that contract and pay their deposit, they're going to get a really lengthy questionnaire for me that talks about not just their style for the shoot, but also their past experiences, things that they're really proud of of themselves. Not about the physical features, but just like, the emotional stuff we do tap into the physical. Is there anything that they're sensitive about? What do they love about themselves? And then I'm also really careful to make sure that it feels really safe for people, too. Like, something that happens pretty often with boudoir is you might have, like, a stray hair or a strap twisted. So there usually is an opportunity to be touching someone and fixing things. And I always ask my clients if that's okay multiple times throughout their experience. So on their questionnaire, there is, like, a question about, is it okay if I touch you? And then, like, the options for that? And even if they check off, like, yes, no problem. Before the shoot and during the shoot, I'm going to check in with them and make sure that that's okay too. So just, like, establishing that safety both, like, emotionally and bodily is so important. And then they get so many emails from me throughout the experience. Typically, my clients book, like, six months in advance, so they'll have, like, maybe weekly emails every other week with like, posing videos and a lingerie shopping guide, how to customize their album and just, like, things that really build excitement. And my goal for them is to get to my studio and say, like, oh, my God, I already feel like I know you. That's, like, the goal.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: So nice.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: So I want them to just feel really confident when they get there. And, of course, there's nerves, but most of the time, I feel like I know my clients before they even, like, get into the shoot.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: It sounds like you've put a lot of thought and effort into your customer experience.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah. That's really, really good.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Do you feel, like, from the feedback that you get from your clients, can you tell a difference in, like, their confidence level from the time you first hear from them and when they're, like, done and they have their album?
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. It's.
It's the best. I mean, I would say the majority of my clients find me because they need something a little bit deeper. I think they're attracted to my background in counseling, so they feel really supported. Maybe they're anxious. Maybe they have insecurities or past experiences that have been traumatic for them. So knowing that I can really support them through that, they find me. But they come in nervous. Like, I would say most of my clients will say, this is so unlike me. This is so outside of my comfort zone. I can't believe I'm doing this. And then they leave, and they're like, I'm so sad. That's over. When can I do this again? That was the best day.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: That is amazing. Do you think it's a kind of confidence that lost, or is it, like, in the moment?
[00:12:53] Speaker B: I think we tell ourselves a lot of lies as women, and we kind of convince ourselves that it's true.
So we tell ourselves a lot of lies about our beauty, our body, our power.
And I think it's easy to look in the mirror and sort of, like, reinforce those things and pick apart things that you don't like about yourself. But it's really hard to do that from someone else's perspective when they show you something, and it's like, this is actually the truth of, like, who you are and how beautiful you are and what you've been telling yourself has been a lie. And I think that feels a little bit confrontational for people to realize, like, oh, my gosh, I'm so hard on myself, and I shouldn't be, and I don't need to be, because look at this. Like, look at how I look and look at how I feel so. I think there's a bit of a transformation that happens throughout the experience, but their beauty and their confidence is there all along. It's just. It's been kind of hidden beneath some of the lies we tend to tell ourselves as women.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you, like, tear them on during the shoot? Like, do you let them know how they're doing? Orlando, do you share their photos with them, like, throughout? Like, how do you do that?
[00:14:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Every client's different. I tend to ask them if they want to see the back of my camera, if that'll make things better for them or if it'll throw them off a little bit. Majority want to see the back of the camera, and when they do, there's, like, an ease that happens. They're like, I can't believe that's me. Like, that's just the back of the camera. You didn't even, like, edit the photo or.
So I do. I show them the back of the camera, and I am in awe of every single one of my clients. I think the fact that they show up is, like, brave enough, and I just feel really proud of them, so I definitely cheer them on. But I also think that women were much better at not just the photo shoot, but I don't know so many of my clients. I'm sure you hear this, too. They're like, I'm awkward in front of the camera. I don't know what to do. I hate photos of myself, so I'm extra proud of them and extra excited. And I think I share that excitement when I shoot with them. And I show them the back of the camera. And there's always, like, a little, like, squeal of happiness that happens between us. So I definitely hype them up throughout the shoot.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: That's really nice. Do you have a specific story of a client that you felt like, wow, that was a big transformation in how she feels about herself.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like, you know, one that kind of stays with me a little bit is one of my clients. During her questionnaire, she had mentioned that she's really sensitive about her nose. It's something that she was picked on a lot in life for. And her family. I think it was her mom and dad, basically, when she turned 18, gave her the option to get a nose job. And we're like, we're going to pay for it. Here's the money to do it.
And I think she went to her consultation for the nose job, and her face had looked so different. But they basically show you what it'll look like after and her face looks so different. And she was like, I don't recognize myself. Like, I don't think I want to do this. So she didn't go through with it. And during her reveal, she was looking at the photos and she's like, I am so happy that I didn't change anything about myself. I love my nose in these pictures, and I love, like, the way that I look in these pictures. And just, again, I think it's. You're seeing the truth in front of you and the fact that not just, we don't just encourage ourselves to alter our image in any way, but sometimes, like, the people we love do it to us, too. So I remember her being really emotional and being like, I'm so glad that I didn't touch my nose. It's perfect.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Wow, that is such a powerful story.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: How does it make you feel to kind of be part of something like that, to kind of be part of helping women feel powerful and confident and empowered?
[00:17:04] Speaker B: It feels heavy. Honestly, even when I tell the stories, I feel, like, emotion bubbling up, but it does. It feels like a really huge responsibility, and I don't take it lightly. I think that's why it's so important to preserve your energy, especially when you're doing the type of work that requires a lot of emotion. So, I mean, it feels good. It feels very powerful, but it also feels, like, a little bit heavy to carry sometimes.
So I make sure that I take care of myself and I make sure that I don't do too much. And after a shoot, sometimes I'll get home and I'm just like, I'll stare at the wall blankly, but as heavy as it can be, I also feel like my clients have healed me, too. Like, they've helped me feel more confident in my own body. And I just. I know that the way that I see other people, like, insecurities, flaws, texture on the skin, all shapes and sizes of noses and bodies, and I know that every single person in front of my camera, I, like, love capturing them, and I. So I give myself a lot of grace, too. And I see my own body as, like, a work of art in the way that I can see it for my clients, which didn't always happen.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really amazing.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: I hope you're listening to this on release day because today, October 22, is your final opportunity to join my one day workshop happening on October 22. That's tomorrow. If you're ready to make 2025 your most successful year, then this is your chance to get a personalized action plan and a bonus one on one call to make sure that you are all set for success in 2025. Sales close in just a few hours, so make sure that you sign up now while there's still time. Go to engvilkolnaz.com minicourse, or you'll also find the links in the show notes.
So maybe about four years ago, I did a Buddha session, so I kind of know the feeling of it, and I know how powerful it can be. Yeah, but for someone who hasn't had the experience yet, how can you kind of explain it, like, how empowering it can be?
[00:19:28] Speaker B: I think you don't walk in with the confidence. So I would say don't wait to book it until you feel confident. Just book it regardless of how you feel today and know that the confidence kind of comes from the shoot. There's, like, a really powerful transformation that happens. And I think, you know, something that someone told me once was, I'm 30. I just turned 37 this week. Oh, my gosh.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: Congratulations.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Thank you. But I spent so much time, I think by the time I turned, like, 13, I was already acutely aware of size, gene size, bodies, the way my body was growing, changing, did every diet under the sun, critiqued myself, and I refused to live the second half of my life constantly trying to improve something about myself, like change the shape of my body or change the way that I look. Like I have spent so much time at war with the way that I look that I'm not going to do that to myself in the second half of my life. So it's like, we can do that until the day that we die, or we can enjoy our one and only life, regardless of size and shape, and do fun things that feel powerful and have, like, this experience that you're going to memorialize with an album, be able to always look back at it and just, like, know that you allowed yourself to have an experience like this.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. Well, it's really true, and it's hard. It's hard when you are feeling like that, and it's really powerful that it's possible to have an experience like a Buddha art photography session and just feel a bit transformed by it.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Was that your experience?
[00:21:23] Speaker A: I was really anxious about it. I was like, I am not feeling great today. It was, like, a bad day.
I was really allergic. I can remember I had, like, I was really struggling with my face, and I was like, this is not going to be good. And then when I saw the photos, I was like, oh. And not even when I saw the photos during the session, I just felt really comfortable. And then afterwards, it's like, okay, I look pretty good. This is okay.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Yes. I love that.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So you do kind of get to see yourself as someone else has seen you.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: And I think that is a huge part of the change, because when I look at myself, it's just how I see myself in the mirror or, like, just looking down on my body. And when someone is taking your photos, it's from their perspective, kind of through their eyes and, yeah, that's really interesting.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm so glad you had a good experience.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
And another thing that I'm curious about is how, because, I mean, all your clients are different, so how can you make the session different? How can you kind of tailor the shoe to each different person and their personality?
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it starts. You know, I talked about that questionnaire. There's a lot of questions, too, about style, vibe. One of the questions I'll ask is, what are the first three words you want to come to mind when you open your album? And those three words are always really, really different. And then I like to take it a step further and ask with those three words in mind, is there anyone that you know that, like, exemplifies those words? You know, sometimes when people say natural, they really mean something else. So I'll try and get, like, an example of what they think is natural.
So, yeah, at the questionnaire, I'll get some of their vibe, and then I'll make a mood board on Pinterest for them, and I'll kind of kick it off with some ideas that I think, but I want them to also add to it as well. And then about two weeks prior to their session, we have a pre session planning call. We'll will look at their mood board together, and I want to hear about their outfits, I want to hear what they're thinking, and then we'll kind of come up with, like, a plan together.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So every session, I kind of like, my studio is very, very simple. I have a couch, a bed, a backdrop, and it's pretty empty. So I kind of like for them to be the focus of it and not, like, the background or anything too busy. Yeah.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: I love that you do a mood board, because that sounds like such a good way to kind of create it together in the way that, like, in a way that fits them.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Everything is really customized. Even when you make their album, I do a same day edit and reveal. So when my clients are done with their shoot, they'll go get some lunch or some coffee while I edit their photos. And then when they come back, we pick them out together. But we also design their album together. And every layout is different. You can put something, inscribe something on the COVID and they have say in that process, too. Like, we'll put the layout one way and then they'll ask to see it a different way, and everything just feels really collaborative.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I remember you talking about that when we were in Norway, how the way that you do it, the experience, it's like a one day to really treat yourself. I just thought that was really interesting how you just do it all in one day and they just get to enjoy themselves.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Yeah. To be spoiled. Like, all you have to do is show up. We do hair and makeup in the morning. I hang up outfits. I'm, like, ironing and steaming things.
And they don't have to use their brain. Like, everything I do is really. I show them the poses, I help them get into it. I adjust them if they need it. Yeah. I want them to just kind of turn their brain off and, like, set down the mental load of life and just have a really fun day specifically for them.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: I really, really love that. I think most of us have a lot to learn when it comes to customer experience and really create something amazing where. Yeah, you're not only getting something great, but you're feeling great in the process as well.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And you can be the best photographer in the world, but it's a real superpower to make your clients feel loved and special.
And that's something that I think is just really important in the process.
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
What if someone's listening, are curious about doing boudoir photography themselves? Like, what should they do to get started? Because it's, like, a very sensitive thing. If you give someone a bad photo of them, you can kind of ruin them. So how can you go about it the right way?
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it can be, like, a bad experience can be a little bit harmful. So if you're a photographer and you're thinking that you might want to try boudoir photography, I would first think about your why? Like, what is it that you'd like to accomplish? Why do you think you'd be good at it? And I would say if you are a really, like, empathetic person, if you really love deep connections with people and one on one experiences, it might be a fun thing for you to try.
But I really do believe that before you photograph anybody else, you have to put yourself through the experience first. So I would say that's probably the number one, because it is scary. And I, when I made my, like, three month, six month, nine month business plan, the first thing I wanted to do was do a boudoir shoot, and it really taught me so much. I was so nervous, and I was not expecting myself to feel nervous. And those nerves bubbled up at different points in the process that I didn't expect. Like, for me, I was more nervous to actually see my photos than I was for the shoot. So now I know to kind of talk my clients through that experience and tell them, if you're feeling nervous about seeing the photos, that's totally normal. And it's something that I remember to check in with them about when they sit down and I turn that screen around. I always say, how are you feeling about this? What's coming up for you right now?
[00:27:52] Speaker A: I think having the experience yourself before you're putting someone else through it, that must be almost one of the most important things you can do, almost regardless of what it's about, because you know what they might be feeling. And it would have been a lot harder for you to know that if you hadn't done it yourself. Of course, it doesn't mean that your clients will have the same experience that you did, but it is still a really good idea.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So I would say definitely put yourself out there first, see what it feels like.
I really do think it's the most fun type of photography, and I do feel like if people are drawn to photography to begin with, there is something about your personality that really loves to tell a story and connect with people. So I think it's a natural niche for people to try. I think it's just important to really understand women and what we experience and kind of societal pressures and how that could play into how they show up and, like, the insecurities they show up with.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And the way that you've talked about it before as well is that your values play a big part of your business. Like how you both. How you kind of, like, do your business, but also, like, how you treat the women that you work with. I think it matters a lot that you don't just do it because it sounds fun, like you have a deeper meaning behind that.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's the main thing.
It requires a little bit of depth and can be a little bit exhausting just because of the stories that you hear and the experiences that your clients come in with. So you have to hold a lot of space for them.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Is there something else that you would recommend someone if they wanted to do a session, like, I want to book a photographer and have them do a session with me. Like, where should I start?
[00:29:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I think finding the right photographer is so important. There's so many people who do amazing work. Like, there's so many boudoir photographers out there who do something a little bit different. So knowing your style is really important.
Knowing what you want for the end result. Do you want digital photos? Do you want products? Do you want wall art? And then just making sure you vibe with your photographer too, making sure that they make you feel really comfortable personality wise. So doing a lot of research is important.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Katie. This has been fun. It's nice catching up.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:30:25] Speaker A: If someone wants to keep in touch with you to see your work, where do they go?
[00:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah, so you can go to my website, kbboudoir.com. that is also my Instagram as well, and also my TikTok and my Facebook. I also have a private Facebook group for mostly for my clients, but I do have some people who join in. It's just kind of a fun, more intimate place to be nice.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: That's always a good idea.
[00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: Well, thank you. I will add those links to the show notes.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: And it's been great. Thank you so much, Katie.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: Thank you.
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