Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to Sustainable Photography, episode 149. I'm Ingrid Kolnas, and today I have Kristen Sweeting with me again because she's been here on the podcast before. One of her episodes is even featured as a bonus because she has her own podcast, Dangerous Creatives. I've worked with Kristin for such a long time, and most recently we did a study abroad trip here in Norway together. It was so much fun and I just knew that I had to have her back on the podcast. If you don't know Kristen, she is a wedding photographer and she's also a business coach from Nashville. She is all about helping creatives build a sustainable, fulfilling business through intentional photography and smart coaching.
You're listening to Sustainable Photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration, and confidence building. I'm Ingrid Collness, the host of this podcast, and after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers, and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
Hi, Kristen. I'm so excited to have this talk with you.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Hi. I can't wait to. Yeah, I can't wait because I just enjoy every conversation we have.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like we need to just start to kind of recap the study abroad trip to Norway because it was, of course, my first study abroad, even though I was in my own country and it was just so amazing. And I just thought we should let everyone in on what it's all about.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: We had so much fun. Like, I was blown away by Norway, was blown away by the group of people we have. Thank you for being such a gracious host.
Yeah, study abroad is.
I mean, do you want to explain study abroad first or you want me to?
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Well, I guess when we first started talking about it, I was like, yeah, yeah, let's definitely do it. And then I was like, but what is it like? Is it a workshop? Is it like a trip? Like, what is it? And it's kind of like a mix because you. You travel and you experience things and you just hang out and talk. But at the same time, I would say it's like you do some really, like, deep thinking and deep work. It's not superficial, like, at all. Yeah, I think that's probably what makes it so powerful. Like, you're connecting with these people who most of them, you don't know. Probably, like, for most people, I would assume. And then you just walk away being such good friends and just feeling really connected because you've had these conversations that you probably don't really have with anyone else.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think that even just being outside of your own normal routine and people that are working for themselves are kind of in their own heads a lot, or were at home a lot, and being in a space where someone or a couple people are facilitating some deeper conversations while you're like, out of your comfort zone trying new things, you know, we always kind of build in this element of surprise to it as well, or something that's just slightly scary to folks because it's this personal journey we're on too, as business owners. We're not just like, let's figure out how to make a bunch of money and it doesn't matter anything else. Most people that we work with, or just that I've come across in creative businesses, there's something deeper than just like, I'm running a business to make money. Otherwise we could do a million other things, you know, but we want to be fulfilled. We want to feel whole as creative people. We want to challenge ourselves to grow into this, like, best, fullest version expression of ourselves, whatever that might be. And so on these trips, we get to do that in, like, personal ways, but also in business conversations. And, like, such a good example was E.W. ingville doing the. This whole time I've been talking about the train up the mountain to the zipline down the mountain.
And the whole time you're just like, I don't know that I'm actually going to do that. Like, yeah, you are. Yeah, you are.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: You know, because I was the one that said, we have to go to this place. Like, we went to my favorite place in Norway, and I came up with all the suggestions of, like, oh, there's this thing. We can do that. And one of the things was the zipline. And I was like. I just kind of thought that I was coming up with these, like, random ideas of, like, this is something that's possible to do when someone has a day off or something like that. There's no way. I thought that we were all going to do it together and it was going to be, like, part of the itinerary. Because then I probably would not have suggested it because I am so afraid of heights. Always have been, like, terrified of heights. But then I didn't think that much about it until we were, like, going in the train up the mountain, and I had imagined a scenario where it was, like, kind of like really chill, like, the zipline kind of like barely going past, and it was, like, not very high over Ground. And then I saw the line from the train and I like instantly started crying. I was like, there is just no way. And from that moment, all I was thinking was just, how can I get back down from this mountain without doing.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: You see the wheels turning. She's like, maybe I can hike down. Maybe I can train down. Maybe I can. How do I sneak away and not do this?
[00:06:03] Speaker A: I know. And I was like, since I was actually co hosting it, I was like, I don't really know how I can get away with this. Like, how can I be one of the people that are telling everyone else this is what you should do and then not do it myself?
But then when we were standing like at the top there, I had pretty much decided like, I am not doing this. There is just no way. It's not going to be possible for me to do it. There's just no way. And then it was a mix of what you said and what the guide set. Because you were like, come on, let's just do it. And you just made it sound like such, I don't know, it was just no big deal. Let's just do it. It's going to be fine.
And then that guy that was hooking us up to the thing, he was just kind of making me laugh. All the things that I was really afraid of. He was like, yeah, you should be afraid. And I was like, okay. So if he could make so light of it, then it was just clear that of course it wasn't, it wasn't going to be dangerous. It was just my own fear. And then we really took it step by step, like, okay, just put the gear on, put the helmet on, just walk in the line. And then suddenly I was like sitting there and it was like, okay, so we're actually doing it now. And then when. Because suddenly there's just like this jolt and then you get kicked off and you go down the line. I was just like, just going to look at the wire, not looking at anything else.
And then kind of like after a few seconds I was like, but I can actually use this opportunity to like look around me and to just tell myself that it's fine.
And that's what I did. And I ended up really enjoying it and I would do it again.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's incredible. Well, I mean, and you self admittedly have had a pretty big fear of heights, right?
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Definitely. I don't do anything that's like over, I don't know, three feet above ground, like so scared.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: And do you feel like your fear of heights is Smaller now since doing that.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I do.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: That's incredible. I mean, I feel like we could make all kinds of business and life comparisons with that story right now. Like, what was one of your biggest.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Takeaways from that story? I think it was.
Well, as you say, there's probably a lot of different ones you can do, but my most powerful one is probably how I would have done it on my own. Like, I did it because I was there with someone else cheering me on, telling me, it's going to be fine, we're doing this together kind of thing. It wasn't just me doing it alone. And it was. Not only was it fine, it was fun and it was worth it and better off now than before I did it. So.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And like you said, you would do it again, or there's other things that might come across your path that you'll be less scared to do next time. I think that that is such a powerful thing about groups in general is. Yeah, I probably wouldn't have done it if I was there alone either. You know, I would have been like, eh, you know, it's expensive or it's high or it's cold. Like, I would have made some excuse to not do it. Yeah, it was cold.
It was cold. I was like, you know, I went from being scared of dropping to then being like, oh, my gosh, my face is so cold. That was the same for me.
But I mean, that whole experience, because we did the train up, the zipline down, and then we biked for, like, 10 miles through, like, the most beautiful scenery I've ever seen. And if either of us had let our fear stop us from doing that, we would have missed that whole. We would have missed a whole day, you know, a whole day of experiences, sites that we couldn't have anticipated.
Like, seeing experiences we couldn't have anticipated. And, yeah, I think our business is like that, too.
It's so easy to not do things. It's so easy to not put yourself out there or not try that next thing. Because there's a million reasons to stay comfortable. There's a million reasons to not do it. And we don't even know what we're missing when we're not leaning into that fuller expression of ourselves and seeing, like, what it. You know, what am I like without the fear of heights? You know, what else am I capable of?
[00:10:32] Speaker A: That's so true. And for me, like, I've been in Auland, like, I don't even know if I'm gonna guess at least 10 times. Like, I've been there several times a year for the past few years, probably, and I've never, like, I've never even considered doing that. That was not something I would have wanted to do ever. And now it's like, okay, so I went there with someone else, and I did it, and now that is something that I want to go back and do again. And I think you're right, because that is probably how we can see our business as well. Like, I do this every year. It's fine. It's working fine. And then we don't even know what we're missing out on.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. We don't even know what we're capable of or what we might be missing or what. What other beautiful things we could be just totally missing out on by not pushing ourselves or not doing the brave thing.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Is that what you kind of see? Because you've been a business coach for such a long time, and you've been doing these trips for as long as I can remember. So is that something you see most often, both when you do trips and when you do coaching, that people tend to do bigger or scarier things than what they thought was even possible?
[00:11:48] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, the reason I started doing study abroad to begin with is I had done a study abroad trip while I was in college and went with a group and learned so much by experiencing things. But also, like, I came back a different person. You know, I came back so confident and so bold and, like, I could go and do. I could travel alone. I could do all these other things that I didn't expect. Like, I grew as a person so much.
And then when I started hosting the trips and doing some of the business coaching, I was like, oh, I really. You know, I think everyone has special gifts in this life, you know, And I think one of mine is I can really see potential in people, and I can hold people to a bigger vision than they have for themselves. And so what I think is really cool about the trips is you're with six other people, seven other people who all are. We're learning how to hold that vision for each other. And it's true for me, too. I can't always see the things myself for my own business, my own life, that other people can.
But you get in a room or you go through all these experiences, and other people are looking at you and saying, like, you're really good at this. Or when you did that thing, when you stepped out of your comfort zone and did that thing, like, you should have seen Your face. And so we're all getting to experience beauty in each other and in each other's growth and being like, well, if that's what they look like when they're stepping out of their comfort zone, that must be happening for me, too. Yeah. It's just really cool to experience that kind of thing, and it transcends whatever business you're in right now, because hopefully we all have very long, sustainable photography careers. But if at some point I want to do something different, like, I want that freedom to be thinking about my own journey in an even bigger way than just this one thing, this one very narrow avenue like creativity, business growth can all happen in multiple ways and I hope will through our lives. Right. So, yeah.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: And, like, that powerful group dynamic, that was really cool to see because of course I see that in my own group, but it's online, and it was really nice to see it in person as well. How, Like, I think it was even the first day one of the girls doubled her rates. And, you know, that's a really big move. And there were just so many different things. I think maybe several people did. Like, there was a lot of things that happen, because when you see someone else doing it, you're like, okay, but if she can do it, I can probably do it too. So I think that's the best part of being in a group, is that you kind of grow together and you cheer each other on.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't feel as scary, you know, going back to the zipline thing. It's not as scary when you're doing it together. You know, like, actually, the pain of you staying on the cold mountaintop and not coming down with us might actually be worse than this. The pain of, like, getting on the zipline and doing it. And I think it's that way, too, with groups when you're growing your business. Like you said, like, couple days in, girl already doubled her rates and booked her new rates before we even left Norway, you know, and it's cool to see that as people around her, too. To be like, oh, my gosh, it worked, and it works, and what am I scared of? You know?
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's really cool. And I just think if you haven't ever been part of a group or if you haven't ever worked with a coach or a mentor or anything like that, it's really hard to understand how big that difference is.
And I don't know if you have any way of explaining it.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of different Things when you're working with a coach and. Or a group, you know, I'm. I'm really passionate about masterminds and group programs because I do think you not only get the support of the coach and the expertise of someone that's a few steps ahead of you being like, hey, don't do this thing that I did that ended up wasting years of my time, or, hey, try this thing. I can already see these natural gifts in you. Also, not every coach is the same. And I feel like, for me, finding someone that can see me and has that gift, I have that gift that is really important to me because I'm like, I want someone who can be like, kristen, you're good at this thing. Why are you not doing it? Instead of being like, well, you could try it. You know, I'm like, I want to know. I want you to see me, too. So anyway, you have the mentor that, like, we just.
We don't know what problems are ahead of us if we haven't done it already, you know, we don't know what problems and what, like, what is possible.
So, you know, I give the example of when I, like, years ago, I had my first, I think, $150,000 year. This was years ago. And in my mind and in my community, I didn't think it was possible to do more than that. You know, like, that was. I was like, I hit the pinnacle of income. That's really what I thought. And, you know, I'm a pretty smart person, but I just wasn't surrounded by people who were either honest about what they were making or that they were making more than that. And so I was like, 150. I guess this. I've, like, peaked. I'm 29, and I've peaked, you know, and so I started, like, giving away my money because I didn't know what to do with it. And I started hiring people that I didn't really need to hire. And I start. You know, I started doing all these kind of weird things also. No one had taught me how to invest or save my money or, like, what to do what. How to make your money work for you. No one had taught me those things. And so I just, like, kind of start frantically doing things with it because I didn't know.
And, you know, now it's a funny story to me because I've made so much more than that, and I've helped other people make so much more than that, and I'm surrounded by people with much bigger visions for their financial life than that. And I Just didn't know because I didn't know anyone that had done it, you know?
And so, you know, some of the first coaches I hired were. It was so inspiring to see how they had grown their business, and they could look back and be like, oh, I did this one thing when I was at your place, and it, like, kind of made me stall for three years. So don't do that, but do this instead, because this is what finally made the difference. I would have had no clue because I had not walked that path before, and they had. So, I mean, I think that that's huge, finding that mentor that can show you, like, what you don't know, because it's not that you're not smart, not that I'm not smart. It's like you just haven't done it yet. And there's. It's not the same strategy as building to 100k. It's just not like you can hustle your way there. You can shoot so many weddings, show so many shoots. Something shifts at a certain point, and you need different strategies. So that's number one. And then with the group, I think, like, there's just nothing more motivating than being around people that are achieving their dreams or go or, like, fighting for them, even if you're. You haven't hit it yet. People that are holding you accountable, that are encouraging you, that are sharing their own wins and sharing, like, how they got there. I just think it is, like, incredibly motivating, encouraging. And as you know, you and I, as leaders, we can develop an attitude within a group, too, that's just really supportive of people.
And I think that that's really cool, too, because it's easy to feel like everyone is not supportive or the Internet wants everyone to fail or all of this stuff. And you kind of have to close your circle in a little bit and really be intentional about whose voice and what kind of messages you're taking in. Because, you know, the mindset piece is such a huge part of our own, like, experience of our business, too.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So there's a couple of things that are coming up for me. One is, how do you find that, right, Coach? Because, you know, as you said, there's so many different ways of doing things. There are so many different kinds of styles and different kinds of personalities. So that's definitely one thing that I want us to talk about. And the other thing that you kind of touched on a tiny bit, where you said, like, when you're at a different income level, you'd need different kind of Support.
Because I keep hearing that, oh, I'm doing. I'm doing well. I don't. I don't need any more support. And it's like, how can you ever get to that point where you don't need any support? I don't really understand that because I feel like, like, the better I do, the more input I want to help me do even better. So can you say anything to that as well?
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Okay, the first one with how do you find the right person?
I mean, I think, first of all, listening to their podcast, listen to their content, like, make sure you like their voice. You know, you like what they stand for, what they believe. You feel like you have some values. Alignment is number one. Number two, like, as much as you can, try to understand what their life looks like. I hired a coach who was really smart, and I really liked her voice. But as we were working together, I realized that her life doesn't look the way I want my life to look. She works all the time and is always available to people and, like, very much that, like, work, work, work kind of mentality. And I work hard, but my family is number one. My health is number two. You know, I. I want time to spend with my family and my son and to be with my friends. And I want flexibility. And so, you know, there was a little bit of misalignment there because to her, if something wasn't working for me, I wasn't working hard enough or I wasn't putting enough time in. Whereas to me, I'm much more about alignment. And I think if something is aligned, it will flow much easier, and you can kind of create the space that you need. You can really design your business how you want to design it. And so anyway, I think making sure that what they're going to encourage you towards is what you actually want. And you know what? Sometimes we. Like, I have been in business a really long time. When I hired this coach, sometimes that's the lesson we need, is to remember that that's not what I want. And so I don't ever feel like I make some big mistake. Like, I learned a lot from her. And also, it reminded me of what is really important to me.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's such a powerful lesson. And I hear that sometimes as well, where it's like, well, I worked. I did this huge program, and I just got burnt out. And it's like, I think it's because we're not connected enough to our own values, because then you probably wouldn't have signed up. To something that had the title of, like, make six figures in 10 weeks. Like, because it, it screams like, this will take a lot of work and a lot of energy. So. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Like, stay connected to your values. Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: And it takes time and practice to kind of know what those are and then to stay committed to them. You know, we talked about this in Norway. For me, like, family is one of my top values. And so I'm starting to bring my son to more things. And I want to make sure that I'm attracting clients that are excited about the fact that family is my top value and not like, oh, look how unprofessional she is that she has her family involved, you know, and so, like, I need to be, you know, like, there's not one right or wrong way to run a business. You just need to be so clear about it that you then are attracting people with similar values. And I'm really lucky. Like, the people I do attract are so passionate about their own values and their own family and their own. Whether that's like their own children or their friend circle or whatever family looks like for them. So, you know, I. My clients see things like that as enhancing their experience rather than taking away from it. Because I'm also modeling what it can look like to run a business that is really supportive of other parts of your life.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so too. And it's just part of that clarity thing that you need. And then I think we don't necessarily always realize how important we as business owners are. And that goes for photographers just as much as for coaches. Because if you don't show who you are and what your values are, it's going to be really hard for your clients to see you for you and know, like, is this the right photographer for me? Because, like, the energy and the values, that's such a big part of it. Because especially when it's someone that you're spending a lot of. Well, it's not necessarily even a time thing, because if someone doesn't have the energy that you need to be comfortable, you're going to end up with photos that you're not going to like.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I do think that in whatever industry or whatever position in the market you are, whether you're, you know, a more budget price person, you know, service or luxury. I still think that that personality piece is so important in times where I've had the most unaligned clients is when I was. I was trending too much. Like, I was the popular Photographer to be hired. And so I didn't realize that people were hiring me because of this, like, popularity moment that I was having in time and not because they're actually aligning with me or my work. And that didn't feel so good either, you know, and. And some of. Some of us will have these moments where we really are trending and we're really popular in that moment. You're the cool girl or guy in that moment, and it just, it doesn't last forever. And I'm kind of glad about that because if we're just running on popularity, it's just. It's not super sustainable. Everybody, everybody trends in their own popularity, you know?
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah. I think you. You'll get so much further if you just stick to your values and really start drawing people in based on what you stand for. And I think you're going to have a much better time as well if you're working with people you really like and you have stuff in common with.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, the times I've gotten burned out is usually tied back to a really misaligned client, and I've learned how to, like, let those people go much sooner.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: That sounds like a really good idea.
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What about mindset?
How do you feel like mindset shifts are when you've been working with people? Can you. Do you have any stories of how you see people changing?
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, all this, all the time, and, you know, I want to make sure I don't miss your other question too. And I'll throw that in with, like, as you grow, needing more support. Yeah, I mean, mindset shifts. I think one thing that can really just create. It creates suffering for ourselves as business owners. Is this, like, frantic? I have to be working so hard or burning myself out in order to hit my goals?
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: And.
And it's so hard to let go of that because what we're Living in late stage capitalism a little bit in our world, even if you're not in America, like it's really bad in the us but other places too. I think it's still there as well. But you know, this, like I need to be just completely pouring all of my energy into this in order for it to work. And I, I don't think that that's true. And I think that when I've noticed people shift into this more kind of open handed place with their business where they're not holding on so tightly, like this has to be successful. This one way I'm doing it, this one, I mean we've all done it, you know, I know it's like I, you know, you come up with this one way of getting inquiries, whether that's SEO or whether it's your website or whether it's wedding planners or whatever. And you're like, this has to work and if it doesn't, then there's something wrong with me or there's something wrong with them or there's something wrong with the world, you know, and we just get in this really angsty space.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Instead of being like, business is kind of a dance and I might try this one thing and sometimes maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. And I have all these other options of things to try if something's not working or if this one person doesn't book, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with me. It means maybe there's someone better coming, you know. And so I think that that is one of the biggest shifts I love to see people have, like just trusting.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: That it's going to work out.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah, trusting, but open. Because I also think that on the other side you can go too far to this ambivalence where you're then not taking action in your business, you're not putting yourself out there, you're not like trying anything, you're just like, well, you know, if it comes, it comes. And I don't think that that's the answer either. There's very much a sweet spot in the middle or third way, you know. But I do think like when you start feeling where your whole body is tight and tense, I think that that's a little bit of a warning sign. And then if you're too much on the other side where you're like, the universe will send me my work and I don't have to put any effort in, you know, there's both of those are a little bit on the extremes and then what I Like to see is when someone is having a lot of compassion for themselves, is consistently trying new things and putting themselves out there and challenging themselves is trusting their own creative intuition. So if you're like, I'm excited to try this, you know, I'm feeling really inspired to host a workshop. Like, great. Like, what sounds fun about it? Let's lean into that. Let's, you know, who are we going to invite? What would make it the most fun thing? So I think that, like, creativity and trusting your own intuitive pings, those little, like, times where you feel like you just get this idea and you're like, ooh, yeah, that just feels great. That's where I really like to see people be more of the time and living in their zone of genius, where there's a lot of tasks and a lot of things we have to do as business owners. But instead of kind of piling all the things on you that you hate doing, finding the stuff that you're like, I'm really good at this. I enjoy this. I'm going to put more of my time into what I'm good at than focusing on what I'm not good at. I think that that's a really good place for people to be, too.
[00:32:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And something that you often say is when you start making more money, you realize you have to work less. I think that's really interesting. Can you say something about that as well?
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you know, growing a business is a practice in letting go, and it's a practice in becoming a little bit less in control of all the things.
And so at some point, like in the beginning stages, yes, you're kind of doing everything. You're building all the systems. You're, you know, you're the one that has to be the most excited about your work and be like, look at my work. It's great. You know, like, that's for sure. And then as you grow and you scale, you have to learn how to delegate. You have to learn how to outsource. You have to learn how to not chase shiny objects.
That's a big one for me, because I want to say yes. When my friends want things, I want to help everybody. And the little things are actually holding me back from the bigger tasks that I need to be doing. And so now at this place in my business where I'm leading people, I'm speaking at conferences, I'm shooting weddings of really high caliber, I'm like, I have two or three tasks that I need to be doing.
It's working with my clients, one on One, it's creating curriculum, it's doing the speeches, doing the photography, and everything else needs to not be me in order for me to do those things at the highest caliber, I want to be doing them. So for me to be effective at these CEO level tasks, you have to really be careful about creating the space for you to do those tasks and work in your zone of genius. Otherwise you're not going to be as effective and yeah. Won't be able to grow the same way.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And you probably won't even have, like, time to figure out how to do it if you spend all your time doing all the other things. Because when you're running a business, I don't think there's ever going to be a shortage of things you could possibly do. Like, there's always something that you can do. So, yeah, just. Yeah, just not doing them and having someone else do them as it does sound like the better thing to do.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's scary though. You know, we're used to doing all these things ourselves. And, you know, you asked about needing more support as you grow your business, and part of it is more business support, but part of it is like the emotional piece. It is really hard to let go. It's really hard to learn how to grow as a leader and to train a team to take some of those tasks for you.
There's reasons why it's scary reasons why it's like that zipline moment for you. And you're also, you have to be compassionate with yourself too. Of like, I've never hired a team member before. I've never been a. I've never been a leader. I've never been a workshop host or whatever. The thing is, like, those are new skills for you too. And so just realizing that as you grow, you're going to be constantly learning new skills and needing training on them and support around them.
Every CEO of a large business has a mentor or a team of mentors or a board of directors or whatever.
And it becomes more important, not less important.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And I also think even when you're not at that level, when you're at the place where it's like, okay, so I'm making okay money and I like my clients, there's always something you can do better. You can streamline your processes and so that you can free up time and spend more time with your family instead, you could probably get better at upselling. Like, there's always something you can do to get better. So if you feel like, oh, I'm at the stage where I don't need anything more. Then I think you probably need to just reassess. And that's probably when you need different, like a second opinion. Like, is there something I'm missing out on? Because I don't think I've ever seen a business where there wasn't like, room for improvements.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Totally, totally. I mean, one thing I see with my clients is sometimes people will need more of an integration year. So they might work with a coach for a while and learn all this information and then they're like, okay, I just need to get my feet under me, integrate it for a minute, and then they come back. And so I, you know, I've had, I've had to do that myself too. But I, I do think, like, when you're excited about kind of growing towards that next thing or you're a growth oriented person, there's always something to learn and to grow into and, and to set a vision for people. Like, you know, every price raise can be a place where you might need support or potentially building different revenue streams, like selling albums or selling prints, or I want to get into stock photography or I might want to host something myself now, like, all of those things are places where we might need support. And they're kind of these like leaps in our own growth. And I can usually feel them when they're coming, you know, like, I know where I want to go, but I'm not totally sure how to get there. And I feel kind of this, like, tension around it a lot of times. That's where I feel like I'm going through my own leap as a business owner. And I bring a lot of support around me when I do that. I have team members, I hire and coaches, and I might find a mastermind. So I'm around other people with similar vision because it's so easy to start going towards that goal and then kind of get sucked back down if you're not surrounded by people that are also doing that. Because then I'm like, oh, well, maybe I'm being impractical or maybe what I want isn't possible, or maybe it's not possible with the amount of work I want to do in my business. And so all those kind of limiting beliefs start creeping in when we're not constantly seeing examples of people who are making it happen and are figuring out how to get through the challenges. I think that is like, super motivating.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so too. And that's kind of what we started talking about, how powerful it is to be a part of a group of people doing something similar to you, where it's like, just seeing what's possible. And I also think that having other people kind of being there for you is. So it's having that support as well as being able to see, okay, so they're doing it, and maybe I can do it too.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of us don't have entrepreneur family members or partners, and the conversations are just different. Like, I remember being with a partner for a while who, like, you know, we want to have someone to process things with. And so I would try to process things with him, and I would be like, oh, my gosh, I got this inquiry for this event, but it was paying X amount per hour, and I can't do that. That's so little. Or whatever. And he was like, that per hour? No one makes that per hour. Who are you to not take that? You know, and it was a whole thing. Because it's just different when you're running your own business, really. You have to think about the opportunity cost. Like, if I take that project for that amount per hour and it keeps me from taking this bigger thing or I've, like, now blocked off that weekend and then that big thing comes by and I can't take it. Like, you have to be thinking about that stuff too. And whereas he was thinking on a, like, well, my 9 to 5 job pays me $50 an hour or $30 an hour or whatever it was. How could you be, like, complaining about this hourly rate? And it's just not the same. And so, you know, a group of entrepreneur friends or other photographer friends would be like, you can't take that rate. That's ridiculous. Like. Cause think about all the hours that go in afterwards or into the opportunity cost or whatever. And so the conversations are just different. And I think that it's, like, so good to have those people around you too.
[00:41:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I see that all the time in my group as well, where it's like, if someone gets an inquiry and they get cheered on to either charge what they really want to charge instead of doing it for hardly anything or nothing at all. And just seeing that, those shifts, I think that's. I think it's so amazing to see.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: So what about, like, when it comes to sustainability? Because, you know, can't leave that topic out. Is there any, like, final things you can say about, like, this is something you should do to make sure that you have a sustainable, profitable, balanced business?
[00:42:04] Speaker B: Um, you know, my. One of my favorite things to do, and it's on my Mind, because I just did it, is every six months or so, do an 80, 20 analysis of your business.
And, you know, it's called Pareto's principle, but essentially this belief that 80% of the work that you're doing is only yielding 20% of the results, and, you know, 80% of your results are coming from 20% of your effort. And I've just found that to be true so often. And I hate it, you know, where I'm like, okay, where are those places where I'm putting in so much effort? And then even just, like, looking at the finances, too, of I put in this much into this. Either one aspect of my business or one marketing strategy.
Time, money, effort, energy, emotions. And, like, I booked one thing from it, or I didn't book anything from it, or, you know, whatever. And so you kind of look at that and. And then you can look at the things you have booked and be like this. These all came from this one referral source. Like, double down on the thing that's working. And so if you can put more effort, more time into the thing that is working versus, like, trying all the things and not really evaluating it, it's huge.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: I definitely agree, and I like to do that, too. And my kind of experience is that a lot of people are kind of scared to look because we're so used to, like, the habits that we have. For example, Instagram, we're so used to, like, you should be on Instagram, and then you end up being there, like, three hours every single day, and it's okay. So it's getting you, like, three weddings. Is it really worth it? So just kind of, like, taking a look and seeing if there's some kind of shifts that you should do. But I know that it's. It's a little bit scary.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: Yeah. We get used to our habits and we're afraid. We're afraid to set a ball down if we're juggling, because, like, what if they all fall or whatever, you know, and there's usually somewhere in between too, where, you know, like, maybe I can post once a week on Instagram instead of five times a day. Or you're like, oh, all my inquiries came from Instagram. I need to show up more on there because I'm getting a lot of work and a lot of people from there, so I should be making an effort to, like, prioritize that every day.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you're not, for some reason doing that, trying to figure out, like, what's stopping me? Why am I not doing the thing that I know works that's also kind of important to, to look at. I have already said, I've said that probably and mentioned it in several episodes. But I'm in your mastermind, and I'm sure that a lot of people are curious to know more about you and what they can do to work with you. So can you let us in on that?
[00:45:02] Speaker B: Yeah. You're so generous. Thank you. Yeah, I have a mastermind, the Dangerous Creatives mastermind. And it's mostly photographers, but a bunch of different industries as well. And also coach educators and people who are wanting to be more of a leader, thought leader in their industry.
So that runs for a whole year, starts in January. And it's just a super awesome, awesome group of people from all over. So love that program. And then we also do study abroad. So next year we have one in Paris that's for coaches and educators and one in Greece that's for advanced wedding photographers. So, you know, that's. You've been in business 10ish years, you want to work more in luxury market, a luxury market, more international or like, you know, just grow your business in some different ways as a wedding photographer. So those are our two trips and England's amazing. And has been in several of the programs and study abroad. We'd always love to have anyone on a trip or in a program. So.
[00:46:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I definitely recommend it. It's really fun working with Kristin and she's got so many great people in there that you'll get to know and just, I don't know, there's something about the big shifts that you can make when you're working with someone that I really recommend. So if you've never had a coach or a mentor, I definitely recommend it. I know that I would not be at the place I'm at now if I'd never worked with someone. I don't. I just think it's really, really, really hard to see progress if you insist on doing everything alone.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I continue to invest in my own coaches and education and growth too, and doing scary things myself. I think that that's, that's always important and it's like, scary, but it's exhilarating. Right. And to see what you're, what you're capable of, and there might be something that's really fun for you and really creative that you just didn't even think about. You know, like, you're podcasting now and you've created so many cool connections and things and people through this channel. Whereas if you if you hadn't taken that leap, you. You might not have known that you were good at it and that you enjoyed it. And, you know, public speaking is one for me. I was terrified of it for years and years and years, but I found it to be such a fun thing that enhances my photography business, too. And so I think that that's one of the cool things about working with someone is like, you don't know what you're even capable of. And there might be something that is really fun and fulfilling for you that's just waiting for you.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's that thing where you don't know what you don't know. So, yeah, just keep your eyes open so that you get to do the things you didn't even know that you wanted to.
[00:47:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Life is like. Life is meant to be enjoyed. And, you know, I just think about all the beautiful things I want to do and experience in this life, and so many of them I get to do through my business, which is. Is so cool. It's such a privilege. And so, you know, I just think everyone should.
[00:48:16] Speaker A: Definitely agree, Definitely agree. But I will be sure to link to your Instagram and your website in the show notes. So if you want to check out Kristin, I can definitely recommend that you work with her if you've been listening to this podcast for some time. I've had several guests on here that have also been working with Kristin, and I'm sure that they feel exactly the same way. So definitely check her out.
[00:48:38] Speaker B: Thanks for having me on.
[00:48:40] Speaker A: Yeah, anytime. It's always fun.
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