Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: There are lots of ways that you can market your business, and they can all work fine if you use them right. Some take more time, others cost money. Some are short term, some are long term and paid meta ads can work quickly, and it can be a great tool to use when you want more clients in the door. But you want to do it right so you don't waste your money. And I'm so glad to have Alana here to talk with us today about running ads.
You're listening to sustainable photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration and confidence building. I'm Ingvild Kolnes, the host of this podcast, and after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers, and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
Hi Alana. I'm so excited to talk with you today about meta ads. People might not know, obviously, but we've known each other for a few years. You've done ads for me before, but for everyone else to know you a little bit better, maybe you can start by sharing a bit about who you are and your background.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Ok, great. Thanks so much for having me. It's always so fun chatting to you. I think we could chat for hours and hours. I'm Ilana Skitter. I'm a Facebook ads and an online marketing expert. I specialize in Facebook ads and mainly lead generation. I'm really passionate about coaching and teaching as well. I've got online courses. I've been doing it for around five years now, this journey that I've been on, and once I figured out I did it for one of our other companies and I thought, oh, I'm going to do this as a side hustle and the bug just bit. And I'm like, no, I want to do this full time. I want to help other businesses grow and understand how Facebook ads work. And when I started doing that, I decided, no, I need to actually teach this. I need to teach people how this stuff works because it's so powerful if you understand how to do it the right way. And yes, that's pretty much how I started. So the last two years, I think since COVID pretty much I started my online, my academy. And yes, and I focus very much on social media managers and virtual assistants, but also small business owners that want to understand ads and just get started with ads because it can be a little bit daunting and you don't want to waste money, right?
[00:02:38] Speaker A: No, you don't want to waste money. So I guess one of the most important things is to actually create that ad that your audience wants to see. How does a good ad look like?
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Wow, that's a loaded question.
So with ads and with marketing, I don't think it doesn't matter what medium you use.
There is a guide, there's a guideline of what you should have in an ad, but there really isn't a wrong and a right. Your audience is obviously mainly photographers. So you guys are creatives and you want things to look pretty, and I'm sure you have beautiful images. So if you are a creative and obviously like a brand designer or a photographer or in that type of field, you're obviously going to use beautiful images. So you want really good images, good quality images. You can have a little bit text, a little bit of text on the image. Let me start by saying you need the three main elements. You want a scroll stopping image. So that's the first thing that makes someone stop the scroll, right? Is something that attracts attention. So whether it's beautiful or whether it's ugly, that's debatable, but it attracts attention, whatever that might be. So we're thinking the colors, is there text, isn't there text, is there movement, that type of thing. Then you also want good copywriting, you want converting copy, and you also want a really good or compelling headline. So some of the ads on Facebook, depending on what the placement is, on your normal feed, you'll see a square ad, and under the ad will be like a headline that know this course name or book now or whatever it is. And you want that to be catchy as well. So the first thing people see is the image. They stop the scroll. Then they might see the headline. And if the headline is compelling, they're like, ooh, I want to know more about this. And then they'll actually read the ad, and they'll read the copy. And then those first three lines on your ad are also important. You can only see the first three sentences or lines above the image. And then you have to click on that read more tab for it to open up all the copy. So you want that first liner, your opening line, to be really catchy, compelling, even polarizing. With that, I like to use something that really calls out my audience. So whoever your ideal client is, you need to be really clear. That's the first step before we even think of creating ads, is who's our ideal client. And I like to try and think of a way that would either call out that avatar or that would maybe shock them a little or starting with a question can also be really good. So you want to be really with those three elements need to be compelling and that would make a good ad. And then the last thing I would say that a lot of people forget is that every ad, even your posts, need to have a call to action. People don't know. We assume that it's logic that people need to now click the button or call you or DM you or whatever it is, but people don't know. People need to be told what to do, especially when they're scrolling on social media. We're like sheep, right? Or like robots. So you need to spell it out. And I always end my ads with like a little emoji, the pointy one or whatever, or a tick and say, click the button to sign up now or click the button to download this thing. Or click or call or apply now or whatever your call to action is, have it in your ad or in your post as well. It might just be, if you're doing a post and you're trying to get engagement, it might be something like hit me up below and let me know what you think and try and get them to comment in your comments. That might be your call to action. So that's also very important. So I would say those three things you want to look at image, copy, headline, and then having a call to action. And obviously you need to then work on your copywriting skills. And that's all about testing long form copy. Don't be afraid of it. Sometimes it does really well. I've had ads that look like blogs and they win. They beat the and I'm like, who's reading this stuff? Like who has time to read all this? I just want to know what's the bottom line. But go figure. Sometimes it wins. I am seeing a little bit of a change in that where it did really well. And now I'm finding things are going back to the old school short copy salesy sign up now to do this, blah blah blah, like a couple of sentences. And that's working well again. So it's always just testing and seeing what works for your audience.
[00:07:31] Speaker A: So sometimes you can have an ad and the call to action be just to send you a message, and sometimes it should be to send them to a sales page or something like that.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Yes. So there's various call to actions and there's different type of campaigns that you can run. So yes, sending a message. I love messenger campaigns, especially for small business owners. It's one of my go to campaigns to start out with, especially if you have a small budget as well. It's really a great way to dip your toe in the water and to get a feel of what's working and seeing who's actually messaging you and a great way to start getting inquiries and really movement.
So, yes, it can be send message, it can be get a quote, it can be apply now, learn more, buy shop now if you're sending them to. So yes, there's various types of campaigns or what Facebook calls objectives that you can choose from. And then they give you a list of the call to action on the button that you can select that would make sense to you or to the ad that you're running.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So there's a lot of ways you can do it. It doesn't have to be like, there's only one way and you have to have a freebie and you have to have a big automation set up. You can do it more simple than that.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: You can. And what I'm loving right now, so this is one of the things I'm really punting and teaching at the moment, is Facebook has for a while now, they've had this new type of campaign or ad that you can create, which is called the lead form ad. And I'm absolutely loving it because it's really giving people that don't have that big automation set up. You maybe have a new lead magnet that you haven't tested yet. Now, in the old days, in the old days, like two years ago when we were doing all these things, you would create a lead magnet and then you have to go build a landing page and you have to have a thank you page and an opt in and all these automations and the emails and everything. Now with this, you don't need all of that. So it's a great way to test a new lead magnet. And what it does is you create the ad and when someone clicks on the call to action on the button. Learn more or download, you can have a download, whatever it is. Let's say you have a free download, a lead magnet, when they click on it, it opens up a little form on Facebook. So first of all, the people don't leave the platform. And I think this is also why these ads are doing so well. And Facebook is maybe pushing them further than other ads because it's allowing you to keep the user on their platform as opposed to sending them off of the platform. So they stay on the platform. It opens up this little form. You have the opportunity when you're setting up the ad to select what you want to ask the customers. So name, email, number, you can ask for an address, there's a whole bunch of things. And then you can obviously ask custom questions as well. You can. Even now I've seen they've got like a logic option. So if you're asking this question and they say yes, then they'll get this answer. If they say no, then they disqualified. And then they'll just go to the thank you thing, that type of. So it's getting really fancy. Wow. And you can put a little bit of a banner image and make it look pretty. And then they fill in the form. I mean, generally we just want a name and an email and maybe a number. And it goes to like a little. Thank you. We've got your details. And Facebook has this inbuilt lead center, which is like a CRM system where the leads go and lie that you can then download and obviously upload into your CRM system. If you're using mailchimp or Mailerlite or whatever it is, you can do that manually. So it's a little bit of a manual process. Also, when they've landed on the little thank you page, it allows you then to upload your lead magnet there. And you can obviously still email them, but they can download it immediately. And then you can obviously put them in your CRM system and they can get an automated email that says thank you for, here's your free download, that type of thing. You can also integrate it and link Facebook with your.
So, you know, Facebook integrates with some of the things I think. Oh, no, it's using Zapier for all of them now. So you need a Zapier, a paid Zapier account. But then you can actually link Facebook's lead center with your mailchimp or Mailerlite or whatever it is, your activecampaign, whatever it is you're using. So as those leads come into Facebook, it goes to your mailing system and they get that automated email as well. So now you've got a little bit of automation going on there. But this is really such an easy and great way to start doing lead generation. And like I said, to test the lead magnet. If it does well, now, you know, oh, okay, I'm getting leads at, I don't know, $2 or three or whatever your allowable cost per lead is. I'm actually going to build a landing page now and build the automation and set everything up because I know that my audience actually wants this lead, this lead magnet I'm testing it with some of my bigger clients even, that have landing pages and they have all the things and testing them side by side. And sometimes the lead form ad actually performs better in terms of the cost per lead.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: That sounds really interesting. So it's just really good to know that there are multiple ways of doing this. There's not one way. And then you have to do what you thought you had to or what you heard maybe five years ago. Things are constantly evolving.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: So one thing that I feel is maybe one of the most important things when it comes to running ads is to have the right audience.
And that can be quite tricky, I think. How does it work to create an audience for your ads? How do you know who the right people are?
[00:13:32] Speaker B: So that will come from. And yes, that's one of the most complicated areas where when someone comes to me and says I'm attracting the wrong people and I'm getting all, it's usually the audience set up and where that would come from and where the biggest mistake lies, I think, is a lot of people don't do their avatar work, or I call it Avatar or brand Persona, I'm not sure what you call it, but that ideal client work. So I have a worksheet that I use, and I mean, most people, everyone that's in marketing has this worksheet and these questions that you go through to really get into the mind and the head of your ideal client. And you might have more than one, so you might have ten avatars or five or two. I would suggest starting with two and then going from there. But if you really spend time on that, and for me, when I do it, I'm obviously thinking from a Facebook point of view, targeting point of view. So I have an idea of what is listed on the Facebook targeting options and what's not. So on mine, I think what makes mine a little bit different to others is I'll ask random things, like the big thing is what is your ideal client interested in? So besides the obvious, which might be photography or weddings or wedding magazines or whatever, but where do they hang out in context of your business? So online and in real life, are they big conferences and things that could potentially be listed? Are there magazines know, like Bride magazine or I don't know, like Martha Stewart TV shows that are maybe relevant? Other things I ask my clients about their clients is, does your client have a dietary preference? So in certain niches they might say, oh yeah, most of my clients are vegan, or they're into organic food or something like that, that could be relevant. That could be a way that I could target these people on Facebook a different out of the box way. Are they into sports? So even when you think, like, it's not relevant to you, write it down. Do surveys of your clients, ask them what they do. What do they do for fun? Maybe you find out randomly that all your clients are mountain bikers, like, who would have known? And that could potentially be a way of targeting these people on Facebook, because you can target people that are interested in mountain biking or in outdoor sports, or maybe it's makeup or hair or whatever it is. Or music. Certain music. Are there bands and things specifically or specific genre of music that your clients like? So it's really going into those nitty gritty of their interests and then obviously their challenges and their pain points.
What are the pain points and what are they struggling with? What influences do they follow, like Brene Brown, Tony Robbins? Or are they other photographers that they might be following and interested in? So all those things, once you've written that down, you will use that to then go into Facebook. When you're selecting the targeting, you will type that as an interest and see if it's listed on Facebook's targeting options. And if it is, then great. And then you're going to create these audiences. So I always say, once again, in the old days, two years ago, three years ago, we were taught to take all that avatar information and put it in one and create this audience. So we've got everything. We've got sport, we've got food, we've got music.
They like golf, they like expensive cars and everything in one audience. But Facebook doesn't want that today. I always say, try to group even if your audience size is big enough and you can only have one interest. That's perfect, because then you know that that interest work. A lot of the times I test one interest at a time. So I might have people that are interested in Brene Brown, people that like golf, people that like travel. And then you can immediately see which ones are doing well enough and then later on you can group them together. But ideally, especially if you're targeting local, your challenge will be your audience size. Your audience size might be a bit small. We want our audience to be 30,000 is small in Facebook terms. So you want kind of 5100 thousand above, if you can. So then you're going to start grouping things together. Now, when you group things together, keep them in the same genre or niche. So if you want to target people that are interested in golf, then you'll have your golf brands, you'll have golfing. You might have golf courses in your area that you can pinpoint. So have all the golfing things together. Tiger woods or whatever. Have about five in one ad set. Then. If you want to target people that are into organic food and natural living, that type of thing, that'll be an audience. One audience. If you want to target people that are into photography or wedding stuff, you'll have a thing about weddings and wedding planners and bride magazine and whatever, that'll be one audience. So try to have up to about five if possible. If you need to put more because of the audience size, you can but group your themes together. Don't say, oh, I want someone that's interested in golf and music and cars and this, because then the algorithm is going to go like, what are you actually looking for here? I'm totally confused. And you're not going to get the results. Right now. Facebook wants you to go broad, so the broader the better. Some people aren't even putting any interests in at all. They're leaving it open ended. They're not putting in the age, they're not putting in. Obviously, you can put in your country if you want to, or you can just leave that open as well. And they're not putting any. And they're just letting Facebook's algorithm do its thing.
And Facebook actually wants people to do not. Some people are saying it works. I don't know. It could be a way for Facebook to make more money out of just. You never know. It depends how specific I think your product and your niche is for that to work. But that is also possible. That's something I've been playing around with, is trying to leave the audiences open and using Facebook has a new thing now called Advantage plus. And I put that on and we see. We see what Facebook does. Like I said, there's no right and wrong. You really have to be objective and not be. Try not to be. It's very difficult. Try not to be attached to the outcome and really just test this idea. Test that idea. Test. It's really about letting the audience show you what's working. It's not about what image you like or what image the client likes or what they don't like. I always say, let's take the one that you like and I like, and let's take the one that we both really don't like. And usually the one we both really don't like will be the winning ad.
So you've got to just taste test all the time.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: So when you're testing, you're running two different ones against each other and just seeing which one gets the most clicks.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: I don't specifically look at clicks. I know a lot of other people do. It would depend on what type of ad you're running would be what metric you're looking at. But yes, I generally always have three ads running. I have a testing method that I follow and let's say I'm testing three different copy versions. So there will be three ads running. I'll let them run for a certain amount of time or until each one of those have reached a certain amount of people. And let's say I'm optimizing for leads. The first metric I would look at is what is my cost per lead? And I will then choose the one with the lowest cost per lead. So I don't necessarily look at link clicks. Link clicks to me can be dangerous because there are a lot of bots as well that click on things. If you're doing a traffic campaign and you're optimizing for links. So traffic campaign is when you're saying to Facebook, I want you to send people to my website, but if you're optimizing for link clicks, you're saying, I want you to send people to my website, but I actually want you to show my ad to people that are going to click on the link. But a lot of people what you'll find 50% to 60% of those link clicks will not even land on your landing page. So this is the great thing about online marketing or social media is the reporting, the data that we actually can see and get. You can see every single step of your funnel, if I can put it that way. So with Facebook ads, you can see how many people saw your ad, how many people did your ad reach, how many people clicked on your ad and how many people landed on the landing page. And then did they convert into a lead, did they buy, did they add to cart? All of those things you can see, which is great, you can track this information, you can get this data back. And what you'll see with a link, if you're optimizing for link clicks, is that you'll see a huge difference and a fall off on clicks. Let's say 1000 people clicked on your ad, maybe 500 actually landed on your landing page, maybe even less. Where if you create a traffic campaign, but you say to Facebook, I want you to optimize for landing page views, then Facebook, you're saying to Facebook, I want you to show my ad to people that are most likely to actually land on my landing page. And that's my minimum metric that I look at, is at least landing, because I want eyeballs on my website, right? I don't just want link clicks. Also, if you have a website, most important thing is have your pixel. Make sure your pixel Facebook pixel is installed, and that's what helps with the tracking. And then you can start building that warm audience of people that have visited your website, they've seen your logo, they've been on your website, and eventually, when that audience is big enough, you can retarget those people. And that's ultimately where we want to be. So that's the first thing I look at is, does this person have a pixel installed? And if they don't, it's like, get it done now.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: So it does seem like there's a lot to keep track of. It seems like it's quite technical. Do you recommend people do this on their own? Should we get help? Should someone do it for us?
Is it a full time job to run ads?
[00:24:35] Speaker B: It would really depend on the person. So if you are someone that I would say tech savvy or tech mustn't frighten you. When I start talking about pixels and clicking buttons and tracking, you mustn't start getting anxiety attacks.
So if you're one of those people where you're really not tech savvy, it doesn't interest you, you don't love it, you don't enjoy fiddling around on a computer, then I would say, yes, get someone to help you with that. I would still say, though, is maybe do an entry level course where you can just understand the basics, understand what a pixel is, how it works, what retargeting is, how it works. So that when you do appoint someone that you know what questions to ask, you know how the metrics work, you know how the reporting works. Because I find that's the biggest problem with people that are outsourcing, is they have no idea how it works. So they don't know what questions to ask. I mean, the ads manager could just tell them anything and they wouldn't know any better. And they're just spending money, money.
So I would still just to empower yourself, just learn the basics, even if you're not going to do it yourself, which I think is very empowering. But then, yes, outsource it to someone. And there's obviously different levels of ads managers out there that could be a fit for you. If you're someone that is tech savvy and you don't mind fiddling around and stats and tracking and stuff doesn't scare you, then yes, do it yourself. You're obviously going to save tons of money if you do do it yourself. The only question then would be do you have the, it's not a full time job. Depending on how big your budget is and how many ads you're running, if you have that budget, then you can outsource it anyway, I think. But if you're on a tiny budget and you're trying to save money, you can definitely do it yourself. And like I said, there are different types of campaigns that you can choose from, so they are more entry level, like a messenger campaign or this lead form ad type of campaigns that are really quite simple to set up and to learn. If it's something that, like I said, if you have that capacity for me, the thing is for people to say, just start. Start somewhere, start testing something and you'll immediately see, this is for you or this is not for you. You're obviously working with clients, you're editing photos, you're out on site, you might think you want to do it and then you'll start doing it and you'll be like, actually, I don't like this. I don't enjoy it. That's what most people do. And they're like, no, I need to get someone to do this. Or you might create a little ad that does so freaking well that you're like, okay, cool, I can do this for now until I have the time to outsource it. You could always buy a course or something and give it to, maybe you have a VA or a social media manager that might be interested in helping you and then do it together and just upskill yourself that way.
But ultimately, when you get to a point where you're the CEO of your business, you're not going to be wanting to run your own ads, you're going to be wanting someone to do it for you.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. And I do like what you said about taking at least that entry course yourself because you'll have no idea whether something's working and it's just really important to know these things regardless of what platform or what it's about. But if you're going to outsource something, it's risky to do it blindly.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Yes, it can be. And there are so many with all the different platforms. And I know it can be a lot to learn, but really just the most basic, even the free content that you get out there, just go and absorb that. And a question I'm getting, I've now gotten a lot this week. I've gotten a lot of referrals and I see the people are saying, please make sure. I want only people that can, that know how to split test. So it looks like there's a lot of ads managers out there that don't do split testing. They don't know how to test ads, which is a little bit scary to me because they're probably making more money than I am and they don't know half of the things that they're doing. And that's the problem with this, that there is a very low barrier to entry to this industry, which is great, but it can, like you say, be risky because if you take on the wrong person and they really sell you and you think, oh, this person is a genius, but meanwhile, they don't even know what a pixel is, then you're going to be in a bit of trouble.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: As a photographer, I bet you're doing a lot more than just photographing. I bet you're pretty much doing all the things you probably don't have an accountant. You're editing all your own images, replying to emails, you're running your own social media accounts. You've probably even drafted your contract yourself. And I'm sure you've also designed your own website.
I want you to think about if this is the best use of your time and if it's the best use of your business resources, because your business biggest asset is you and your time. And you should be out there making money. Elopement photographer on actually taking people's photos and not on doing all the things in your business. Now, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't draft your contracts. I'm not an accountant, so I can't do your books for you, but I can help you out with your website. So if you want a website designed for you and your brand to be set up in a way where it can help you get more clients, send me a message. And you can also check out my website, ingwilcolnes.com website, to see if this is a good fit for you.
But you've been doing this for such a long time, so you must have seen some goodness and bad meta campaigns. How does a good successful ad campaign look like?
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Well, that depends on what your objective is. So obviously most of my clients that I work with do lead generation, so they want to build their email list and they might do a launch of a product or online course, that type of thing later on. But yes, for me, I've got this personal thing that when I'm doing lead Gen for a client. I want to try and get their cost per lead under $2, which is not always possible. But if I can get that right or even under a dollar, I mean, then we're singing and really getting those leads and obviously also good quality leads. And then later on, for me, what a successful campaign looks like. If it's someone that is doing lead gen and then launching is obviously seeing the sales come in.
It's a good feeling when you know that the leads that you got are actually the right leads because that's always the tricky part. Like you were saying about targeting, targeting is one of the most difficult parts of it. And when you're doing lead generation and you got a name and you got an email address, but you don't necessarily know, is this the right person? Are these people going to buy from me? So it's great. I would say a successful campaign, if someone is doing a live launch, it's knowing that they're getting their return on investment when they launch. So some of my clients have thirty five K, fifty K, one hundred K launches, which is great. And then we're spending like $3,000. So they're definitely making their return on that. And then also just, yes, like I said, with smaller businesses as well, doing the messenger campaigns and that type of thing, seeing whether it's a photographer or someone that maybe has a beauty salon that's doing a little messenger campaign and spending a couple of hundred, not even 100, $200 and then getting twelve bookings from that just through Facebook Messenger. I mean, that's always very rewarding. So that would be, obviously the success of a campaign would be, are you getting a return on your investment, whatever your measure of return is? Because it's also important to remember, yes, obviously we all want to make sales and we want to make money, but marketing and sales are two different things. And Facebook and on social media is very much more marketing. It's about even when you don't get that return on investment or you didn't make the sale or whatever it is, you've got hundreds of thousands of eyeballs on your content, or thousands. You've got visibility, you've gotten reach, you've gotten new people, maybe new followers, et cetera, on your social media pages and on your platform. And if you're consistent with that, then that eventually snowballs into sales. I think the big mistake that people have, especially today, is it's become so much more competitive, so many more people are doing this, and we really need to do things to stand out. And people are still in that notion like, oh, I want to run a campaign and I want to make sales and I want to make money, and wham, bam, thank you, ma'am type of thing, it's quick and easy, and it really isn't for me. It's about and what I'm coaching my clients on. And the clients that I'm really looking for these days is looking at that sustainability, looking at the long term game. It's not this quick win. It's possible, yes, to try and get the quick win, but what are you doing in the long term? Because it's having those little ads. Even if you're just spending $5 a day on a video ad or on whatever, on an engagement campaign, if you're boosting your posts the right way, there's a right and a wrong way. So if you're kind of boosting your posts, getting engagement, having that run every day, all throughout the year, spending five or $10 a day, because that will just build, remember, you can build a warm audience out of people that have engaged with your Facebook page. You can build an audience out of people that have engaged with your Instagram account, that have gone to your website. So all these warm audiences you're building up as you go along that you can. And then when that audience gets big enough, you can start retargeting. So every time you launch something, you can run an ad and target those people, people that have already engaged with you, people that have already been to your website, seen your logo, seen your face, seen your content, which is what we call a warm audience. So you're not always marketing to cold people. Where if you're just doing the quick win game, you're launching these ads to cold audiences every single time, which can be stressful. You just don't know. Like you say, you're taking kind of a calculated risk and you're kind of hoping it's going to work. You're doing your best, you're putting all the things in place, but you just never know how it's going to turn out. So for me, it's really looking at the long term game. What can I do at a low cost or whatever your budget allows? If you have a monthly marketing budget, what will that permanent ad that's running those ads that are running all the time, whether it's, like I say, whether it's boosting one of your posts every week, whether it's having a video view campaign going in the background for $5 a day, I think you can run a video for one dollars a day, and you can maybe have three different types of videos going up, one dollars a day each. And that's just slowly ticking along in the background and building these video views that you can retarget. So yeah, that would be my strategy or suggestion to clients is to look at the long term game and don't always just focus on the quick win. Have that budget. Like, people tend to budget for a launch and they're like, okay, I've got all this money now and I want to do this launch, but I think there's also power in having the slower method and saying, okay, I'm going to spend $300 a month or $100 a month, whatever, just on this little engagement campaign and just keep things going in the background.
[00:37:16] Speaker A: I think that's a really powerful thing. And I think that's actually speaking to something that I've seen or I am pretty sure is almost like symptomatic with at least part of the photography industry where we're like, I need bookings now, I need to sell something now instead of thinking long term and thinking like, okay, so next year I want to make this much, and the year after I want to have this many clients. I'm thinking like, what can I do now to make sure that I'm setting myself up for success, not just right now, but also in the future. So if you think only about now, you're going to be setting yourself up for making things a lot harder for you down the road as well.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: Definitely, yes. I love that it's really having that vision of what can I do now? What's going to build up and snowball for next year? And it's all about just being visible, being consistently visible to a new audience, getting, it's about your funnel. What does your funnel look like? And it doesn't have to be. People talk about funnels and we think, oh, it's all these elaborate things and opt ins and automations. It could literally, your funnel could be these little ads or, I'm boosting a post every week. I'm getting new eyeballs of my ideal client on my content, on my Instagram page, on my Facebook page. And I know that they're building up and building up. And you'll be surprised that the more consistent you are, you're going to start getting either referrals or inquiries. Anyway, just from that, I was going to say organic. It's not organic, but from your smaller campaigns. Remember, people aren't ready. Always ready to buy now. And obviously, especially in the wedding photography industry people are planning a year ahead or three months or whatever. So you want to be seen now. You want to be top of mind now, whether it's your little ad, whether it's boosting a post, whether it's an email that they're getting once a week, and the lead magnets that you're offering, all those touch points are going to warm and nurture a potential client. They're going to follow you around and check you out and see your photos that you're sharing and your content. And then when they're ready to buy, they're going to contact you. They're going to come to you first and say, hey, I want to quote, or they're going to inquire.
Photography, I think, is a very personal thing. People do shop around. People want to find the photographer that has the style that they're looking for. If someone keeps seeing your photos and they like your work, they'll start remembering it. They'll start getting ad recall, if I can put it that way, or brand recall. So the more you're putting it out there and the more consistent you're being, the more potential you have to attract those inquiries.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: I think so, too. And I also think it could be a good way to kind of educate your clients and let them know that this is what it cost, it's worth the investment. And if they just come across you and that's it, it's easy to think like, oh, no, this is way too much, I can't afford this. But if you're often in their presence and you're showing up and you're sharing beautiful photos, maybe you're giving them some tips on what to wear and how it works and how valuable it is to have their photos, their family photos on their wall while their kids are growing up and all these things, then over time, they're more likely to see that it's worth it to actually invest in working with you. So if you think more long term, that could be the solution. In many ways, yes, definitely.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: So doing these little engagement campaigns and boosting your posts, if I can put it that way, and having that education, you might have a blog, or you might just have these posts and you might have a resource section. I don't know. Maybe you have a Facebook group and you can have a resource section. I think they call it guidelines now, or your blog or a vlog. I love video. So if you're not shy of actually being on the camera, remember, people buy from people. People need to know, like and trust you before they buy from you. And the quickest way to overcome that bridge is through video, is to show your face, speak to people. Have this video where you're speaking to someone. And yes, that's the quickest way to educate and to really scale your know, like and trust. So if you're willing to do that, then that's always a win, I think. But yes, also, whether it's just posting, whether it's carousels, but educating your clients on exactly those things, remember, people don't know what they don't know. And when you're purchasing something, and like this, this is not necessarily a must have. You don't need to have photographs.
It's a nice to have, it's a value add. So with products and services like that, we do need to really get into the psyche of our clients and make them realize what the benefits are. What are they losing out on if they don't do this, if they don't have the photo? I mean, I'm so angry, like with one of my kids, I hardly took any photos when they were tiny. But it's always the first one, like all the things, and then the second one and the third one that fizzles out. And then you look back, time goes so fast, and you're like, oh, I should have taken a photo of this or I should have done a video there. So it's reminding people of things that they either don't know or maybe do know, but they forget. And you have to consistently be putting that in front of people.
Why are photos important? Or the experience? What is the experience that they're after? And really the benefits, not the features. We always want to focus on the benefits. And why would this make a difference in your life? Having that beautiful wedding photos and having the book made and all those things? Because down the line, it's memories. It's memories that you can't redo or recreate. You've got to do it in the moment. So, yes, I think social media is the perfect whatever platform it is that you use, whether you're using all of them or one of them, it's a great platform to be able to post about that. And if you do it strategically to really educate your clients or potential clients, and like I say, bringing them down, that know, like and trust factor. If you can imagine a pyramid and then at the bottom, the biggest one will be your. No, your k and the middle will be your like. And the top, the little point will be the trust. So it will go up like that and that bottom. People getting to know, you will like the opposite of the funnel. That's your top of funnel. It's really the top of the funnel. Those types of posts will get new eyeballs, new people, new visibility, new reach into the top of your funnel. And as you keep posting these educational posts, it will filter some of those people down into the middle of the funnel where they start actually following you as like, oh, I like this person. I like what they're saying, I like their style. And then obviously, we want to filter them down to the trust and to the conversion event where we get them to convert into a paying client.
[00:44:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So if someone's listening and they're like, oh, I've only ever boosted posts, but this sounds really interesting.
I want to test it out. I want to try. I want to see what I can do with ads.
What do they do? Where do they start? What would you recommend?
[00:45:15] Speaker B: So I would say, if you want to start, I have a free master class that if you really are keen and you want to find out the right way, how it works and what a pixel is and what's the difference between boosting and using the ads manager and all those things? I would go watch my free master class and just get a feel for what it's all about and get all the things we've been talking about now, get a bit of detail on that. And then I also share my top three go to ad campaigns for small business owners, which I think is really powerful. So we've already spoken about the lead form ad and what that can do, which I think is brilliant, I think would be for photographers, especially if you have a nice little lead magnet. And then there's also a traffic campaign and then the messenger campaign. So I would go watch that and see, oh, if that's something that you feel like, I want to try this out. I think I can do this on my own. But you're looking for guidance, then if you watch that masterclass, it'll take you to my Facebook ads quick launch, which is a short course on exactly step by step, how to set up those three types of ad campaigns. Obviously, it's not just me. There are a lot of other course providers and Facebook experts out there that you could follow if you know them. But I would definitely, to save time and money, I would just do a short course, a quick little course like that. That shows me exactly to get set up the right way. That's the biggest issue that I see, is people not knowing that there is a thing called a Facebook business manager account and not having their back end set up properly. Obviously, if you are very tech savvy and you want to figure it all out on your own, you could go do that. You could look at, go check out my free content, you could follow people, different people in the field that do Facebook ads and go and try and figure it out on your own. But I must just warn you, it's changed so much. It's become a lot, like you said in the beginning, it has become a lot more technical, especially since two years ago, since the iOS updates and these things like conversions, APIs and pixels and all these things that you have to consider and verifying your domain and all of that. So it is a little bit more technical than what it was three or four years ago. But the first thing I would say is go to business, facebook.com.
Go type that in and see. It'll probably bring you to your metabusiness suite. So a lot of people know now, if you have a business page, you will have a meta business suite. And in there on the left, navigation on your little drop down, where there's a drop down on the left. If you click on that, see there, if it says business account. If it doesn't say business account, it means you do not have a Facebook business manager set up and you need to get that done. That's the first step. If you do have one, you might have one, you might have two. Some people have two and they don't have no idea how they created it. I would look at tools and resources. I've got another tool as well. I've got a little mini workshop that shows you how to set up your Facebook business manager account if that's the only thing you want to do. I think it's $27. So if you want to just know that and then figure it out on your own, that's a standalone thing. There's obviously full on. I have a full on advanced course as well. But if you're a small business owner, you don't need to go there. That's more for people that really want to go advanced and you've got big budgets. Well, not necessarily, not always big budgets, but you want to do retargeting and you want to get a little bit more advanced just to start out Facebook business manager, get it set up the right way and then know how to set up an ad campaign.
[00:49:09] Speaker A: Just because I'm curious, what do you consider a big budget?
How much should you budget with when you start doing ads and how much is a big budget?
Because you have to spend money on Facebook ads, so it's just nice to have a ballpark.
[00:49:27] Speaker B: I know that's such another difficult question.
Sorry. It really depends where you're at.
So I would say a good starting budget to start out with is around $500 per month. But saying that, I've had clients that have just gotten started. So also to keep in mind, you don't have to pay Facebook up front. Your budget, your spend gets deducted intermittently as you go. So you might just spend a, you might end up getting a client off of that $100. And like I said, I mean, if you're spending $5 a day on a little boosting campaign or a video campaign, what's $5 a day? $10 is $300. So five would be around 150 per month.
If you're doing the long term thing, obviously the more you do, the quicker you're going to grow your warm audiences and that, but it's really also just a psychological thing. It's about getting used to just spending that $5 or that $10. So I would say if you could do $10 a day, which is around $300 a month, that's a good start. $500 is preferable also, all depending on what type of campaign you're going to be running.
[00:50:52] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:50:53] Speaker B: Big budgets are the gurus out there when they do their presentations and that when they talk about small budgets, they're talking about $100 a day.
That's small budgets to them. Okay, but my clients don't even have that.
Some of my clients are spending 3000, 5000 per month or per launch. Not even per month. That could also be where you're going depending on obviously what you're launching and what you're promoting. But I would say if starting out 500 and in a really nice, to get some nice data and some nice results, if you could spend $1,000 a month, I like that. I've got a lot of clients that are spending that and getting good results from that. You can get a ton of leads with that. And then obviously, depending if you've got your upsell and if you've got your sales process in order and working well, then you can get a return on investment on that. Even on that. I have a client that's spending that. Or we started with spending 1000.
It was lead generation, but we started upselling a course for 497. Those sales of that course is covering the ad spend. So we're not making a lot of profit, we're breaking even, which to some people are like, oh, but keep in mind, she's not paying for her ads, but she's getting 1000 people on her list every month.
So in six months and twelve, I mean, her list is just growing and growing and growing. And obviously she's got all these other products that, and she's got launches and all these things. So she's getting 1000 leads a month on her list for free ultimately, which is something also to think about. And that's really a nice place to be. So she's getting all these leads for free that she can then sell her other stuff to. And upsell the people that are buying the small course, upsell them to her bigger programs.
Like I said, have that five or $10 a day budget in the background, like for always, like every month. That's a standard. And then if you want to promote something up and above that, then maybe do, okay, this month I'm going to do, I want to now prepare for summer when the weddings and whatever. So now I'm going to spend $200 extra this month or for the next two months because I want to ramp up. I want to do lead generation or whatever. So I would play it that way.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: Okay. That's some really good suggestions. And what you said about how you have a client who's selling a smaller course to pay for her ad spend. I have someone in my program that does that with photography as well, where she's got a lower priced offer to get people in the door and then that's paying for her ads because she wants them to come back to do a bigger session. So you can transfer this to photography as well. You don't have to have a course or anything like that. You can definitely do it with services as well.
[00:54:15] Speaker B: Definitely. And it's such a nice way. It's almost like they call it an SLO funnel, a self liquidating offer. The offer is paying for the ads, so it's self liquidating, which is really cool. If you can find that sweet spot and get it to work, then it's awesome. It's amazing.
[00:54:34] Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah, that's definitely something to try. But I do want the listener to kind of be interested in testing out ads and checking out things. So can you let us know where to find you? What social media, how to find your course and stuff?
[00:54:53] Speaker B: Yes. So I'm obviously on Facebook, so you can just look for skitter on Facebook. I think it's kitter and I'm obviously on Instagram as well. So remember when you're running ads and when you're using the business manager meta owns Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp. So if you're in a country where WhatsApp is big, so where I am in South Africa, WhatsApp is a very big tool. Everyone uses it. And Facebook is bringing a lot of updates to that as well. And WhatsApp also can integrate with your Facebook business manager, so you can run WhatsApp campaigns instead of a messenger campaign. So that's a whole new thing there, which is quite interesting. So I'm on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. You can go stalk me, find me on one of those. But I'm mainly on Facebook and Instagram. And then you'll find my links to my master classes and my courses there. But the Masterclass is elanaskitter.com freemasterclass. So it's freemasterclass. And then also, if you do watch that masterclass, just a little insider tip here, if you do watch the free master or just sign up for the Masterclass, it's an on demand masterclass. So as soon as you opt in, you go to the page with the video on it and then you have five days of a 50% discount on the Facebook ads quick launch that's available. So just remember that. So once you sign up, there's that 50% discount available to you on the quick launch should you want to learn further how to actually set up the campaigns step by step. Yes. So that's there. But like I said, on social, you'll find all my links to all the different things.
[00:56:46] Speaker A: That's excellent. I'll be sure to link to that. Thank you so much. And there's one question that I always ask, and I've forgotten to ask you, so I want to end with that, actually. I want to know what a sustainable business looks like to you.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: A sustainable business. So, to me, sustainability means longevity, right?
So it's about not. I suppose you could be the CEO and be a solopreneur, but it's really about the consistency. Consistency of income, consistency of marketing, and like you said, always having your eye on a year ahead, two years ahead, three years ahead, and implementing the strategies now that are going to be the building blocks and the foundation for next year and the year on that and the year on that. So it's really about finding yourself and then finding the parts that fit. And maybe there are people that fit. To me, I would love to have a small team that's doing certain tasks, obviously, or maybe all the tasks, and I'm lying on the beach somewhere. I mean, how's that for sustainable?
But it's having the processes and the systems in place that allow consistent income and that you're always knowing how much is coming in and how much is coming through and building your business in such a way, whether it's courses, whether it's your lead generation for clients, whether it's done for you services, but planning in such a way ahead where you always know where the business is coming from and where the money is coming from so that you don't have those feminine feast months and that stress, to me, that would be sustainability.
[00:58:43] Speaker A: Perfect. That's a brilliant answer. Thank you so much. It's been lovely talking with you, as always. So thank you.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:58:54] Speaker A: You just listened to an episode of sustainable photography. Please share this episode with a photographer you care about.
