Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, and welcome to sustainable photography. Today I am doing a mentor call with Elise, who is a pet photographer in Paris, and we're going to talk about how she can position herself as a pet photographer in the right segment of the market, because that can be quite challenging.
You're listening to sustainable photography, a podcast all about business tips, inspiration and confidence building. I'm Inguil Kolnas, the host of this podcast, and after over a decade as a photographer, I now help talented photographers run sustainable businesses. And for full transparency, you should know that I'm a mentor with paid offers, and I will probably mention some of those in this episode.
Hello and welcome to the podcast. We have Elise with us today, and I thought we'd just start by you letting us know who you are and what your photography field is for sure.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: So, first of all, thank you for having me and inviting me here. It's a pleasure. And, yeah, let's say that my expertise, if I can call it that way, is pet photography, which I have only been doing professionally since last May. So I'm quite recent in the market, you can say that. Yeah, I started because of my husky, which has been quite a challenge from the beginning, especially in terms of behavior, because I was quite.
Not necessarily the newbie, but the noob, but quite, quite, to be honest. So, yeah, she has been this huge push for me to become better, a better person, a better owner, even a better photographer, if I can say so.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: That's really nice. And pet photography, I feel like that is.
It's not the most common kind of photography that I know of. I know of a few people who do that here in Norway, and I know that it's a lot more common in the US. But you are in Paris. How is it there exactly?
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm in mainland Europe, as you can say. And it's true that in Paris, for example, it's quite crowded because, yeah, as you said, quite a lot of people have pets today, right? Whether it is horses or maybe not in parisian flats anyway, but at least cats and dogs and even. And some even have rats. Like, I'm amazed at how many different animals people can keep in their houses. Right. But, yeah, on my side, it's because I really want to bring something special to pet owners. I have lived not necessarily through my current pets because, aside from a husky, have two cats. But before my husky, I had another one, and unfortunately, she died when she was really young, like, she was ten months old. It was an accident. Car accident, unfortunately.
So, of course, she was hit by a car, basically. And, yeah, she passed away.
The fact that she left us so soon, of course, it's traumatizing in itself, but I realized how little time we've got with them. You tend to think that they will live forever, right? Or at least you'd like to believe it. But in the end, that's not really true. And it's horrible. It's a horrible thought to have, but that means simply that you need to cherish every time and every moment you share together. Yeah, that's what I've learned through that experience, that traumatic experience, actually. I remember my husband did not really want to have to do anything anymore with any pets. He didn't want any cats. He didn't want any dog whatsoever. And it took us a while to take Sitka. So that's the name of Horhosky. And yeah, here I am today, a part time pet photographer.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So quite the journey.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: And you've said that you're quite recent, and we're gonna talk through some things that you feel kind of stuck on or that you find challenging.
And since you started may just over a year ago, what do you feel has been your biggest struggle?
[00:04:27] Speaker B: That's an interesting question, because I usually, as soon as I focus on something, I tend to get this tunnel vision and tell myself, this is where I struggle. The problem is, usually we focus on what we miss and not on what we have.
On my case, that clearly has been some storytelling. This is just a buzzword right now. It does not mean anything to anyone. But what I want to say is the fact that it's important to tell your story, your why, why you are doing things, why you started, why you keep doing it. Because a lot of people have asked me, but how do you do it with a already full time job? Because, yeah, as I said, photography is not my full time passion, let's say, not yet, at least. And people are always asking, but why? Why did you start? Well, basically because I love pets. I love my dog. I love my cats. They make me laugh. They make me cry sometimes as well. They make me angry and upset when they do silly stuff. And I'm pretty sure that people would like to have memories, eternal memories, to remember them. Bye. When they are not with us anymore. And especially beautiful pictures, because I was left with just the pictures that I took with my smartphone with my first dog. I thought that those pictures clearly did not represent her at all. Like, not a chance, not even 1% of her character that I saw every day. And I wish I would have taken the chance. And reached out to a photographer, pet photographer, of course, to take some pictures, because those are the things that we remember them by and that we keep with us.
So the struggle that has been for me right now is actually finding the time to market, to reach out to people, to build my brand, my website. Just to give you an example, I started working on my website last December, and I only published it in May. That's a whole whooping. Six months of work. Of course, not every day, because I'm still working part time. But anyway, that just gives you a scale, an idea of how long things take. And I will also say, as my brand is more orientated or targeting, rather, people that have extra income per month to be able to invest it in, but artwork in folio boxes, whatever it may be, as printed products, I am not necessarily one that has clients over Instagram. And today my community is mostly based on Instagram. So of course I will be able to do something with that. But of today, that's not really, let's say, paying off. That's not the ideal world. But I think, you know, you see what I mean?
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Part of your struggle is time. You don't have enough time to build and market your business as well as managing your other job. Right?
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Okay. So when you have a business, most of us have other commitments as well, whether that's family or another job or whatever it is. And I would say you have kind of two choices. Either you have to find a way to spend time on it, like by doing less of other things.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Or you have to spend money to get someone else to take stuff off your hands. Delegate it.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Delegate it. Which, I'm horrible at it, but I know it's important to do.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: And this is where we're kind of. Some of us have more resources than others. For some, it's easy to just like, okay, I'll just throw some money at that, and then it's going to get fixed. Whilst others are like, that's going to be really hard. I need to find a way to kind of carve up time.
But there's another aspect to this, which is prioritizing, because you can't do everything all at once anyway, so do the thing that will matter the most.
I think one of the things that I've realized the most is how much time we spend doing things that doesn't matter.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. Oh, my goodness.
Now that I'm hearing you say this, I'm thinking of a quote that a marketing coach told me, this was two months ago already. And she told me there's no busy people or persons in this world. It's just people who don't have priorities.
And that really stuck with me because it's true. I am, or I have this kind of personality that I'd like to do everything at the same time.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm that way too.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: And I think a lot of us are that way. Right. Because we get excited and it's like, I like to do this and do that and do that. But the problem is time is not infinite. Or at least not the time in a day.
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. So then you have to choose. You have to decide what is the most important. And by most important, I mean what's going to take you closest to where you want to be. So that's actually where I think you should start.
You know that right now you don't have the need to make this your full time livelihood or anything like that. You just basically you want your photography business to pay it for itself and hopefully then some.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: So that's where you should really start to think. Okay, so to get there, what do I need? How many clients do I need a month to make that happen? And you know that, don't you? It's like one or two clients a month.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. So maximum what I said, what I calculated was 25 hours per week. That was my amount of work, or hours that I wanted to put into photography. And then to cover my costs, just my basic costs with no profit was two clients. Of course, if I can handle three, then that's perfect, that's a bonus. But at the very minimum it's two. Yeah.
[00:10:52] Speaker A: And when you want that few clients, you can kind of afford to go higher end. It might be easier for you to aim for a higher price and give them more of an amazing experience where everything's covered and you've taken care of everything rather than going for a lower offer where it's like, yes, her photos are nice, but I would never spend that much because that's often what you get when you are trying to go too low. Have you given any thought to where in the market your pricing would fit or your offer before we talk pricing?
[00:11:29] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Before actually going or defining my prices, I took a look at what other pet photographers were doing. But not only that, I also looked at it from the brand perspective, because as I was saying earlier, I'm really targeting people who have a little bit of free income, let's say every month to invest or every month or whenever it may be. Right. Just have some money available to be able to invest it in pet products and have a unique experience, personalized, tailored to their needs, to a pet's needs. If the pet is reactive, of course, we are not going to the middle of Paris for a photo shoot. That's just not ideal. So that's what I had in mind when I built the brand and what I have think defined as a price. For me, I would say it's medium, high end market. I would say, because I'm standing right now, my lowest priced package is at 200, 550. So €250. That's for a studio session.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: So people come over at my studio and then they leave with five pictures and quite a lot of print products as well. They can order more, of course. So, yeah, that's only the minimum. It can go up until 650, for example, euros.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Okay, so if I came to you with my little dog Suvi, and we wanted to do a photo session in.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Paris, I'd love that.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: How much could I spend? Like, what would be the maximum amount that you would sit down with me and offer me?
[00:13:13] Speaker B: The maximum amount just in the package would be 650, but you could add on top of that print products, which can go up to wherever you are ready to spend, basically.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Okay, so what is in the package of 650?
[00:13:31] Speaker B: So 650 you've got. It's either two things, folio box with ten mounted prints, or it can be a floating board, 60 by 40, if I'm not mistaken, the size here you also have ten pictures, ten digital pictures, because I know we live in the digital area, right? So we need to give the digitals, otherwise people will be mad. I think they can also have a discount on other printed products, because as they have ordered one which is included, if they add another one, then that's 5% off. If they add another one still, then it goes down to 10% offer.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Which is quite nice, right? It encourages people to invest more money. Yeah. Printed products, the digitals, of course. All my advice during. Before, of course, while we build the concept of the session, I like to call it a concept because, I mean, some clients come with these fixed ideas or what they like, and then we talk together, right? And usually that's when I. The laughs and some funny moments happen because they realize, oh, but that's not what I want.
And I told them, show me, show me what you'd like. So where else have you seen these examples of what you'd like? So, in terms of light, in terms of pose, in terms of can be whatever, right? If that's for studio, of course, they will certainly have seen it, because we all are on social media, right? So we all get inspiration from that. From that, yeah. And once we confront each other's ideas, then I start to build on their concept, to tailor. To tailor precisely what they'd like and build their session. So then we go into the session, we grab some snaps, we take a little pictures as well, see which ones we like. Already on the live. If there's one that I particularly like, usually I show it to the client and the client will leave with another appointment, which usually is live. I prefer it list, or it can be remote, whatever.
And then we check the not the final pictures, because it's a way too early. Just a week later than the session, we get together again and we review a pre selection of the images. This means that the images are a little bit edited, but not much, just lightly edited.
And I go ahead and present it to them in a video over a call. So I don't do galleries because I think that's quite impersonal and the client chooses alone, and that might lead to them not seeing the potential of the picture as I see it. So my presence there is not. Absolutely not to force any sales on anyone. I hate that. And I think everyone does as well. So I really stay there, listen to what they're saying, watch, pay attention to their, let's say, their expressions. If they have this sparkle in their eyes, it might be telling of what they are thinking and feeling. Because this is an emotional process, right?
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Yep. Absolutely.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: So I try to advise them on that. Usually they have x number of digitals included. In your case would be ten. Usually people leave with at least three or five more.
So that's already a good thing. And then that's also when we design together the printed products. It can be so, the printed products, what does it mean? It can be artwork, it can be prints, it can be folio boxes, it can be some books with three prints, for example, in them. It can be whatever. And that's when we design, let's say, inspired by them and designed by them. With, of course, my advice, meaning I will certainly ask them where in their house they would like to hang or have the print product. If it's something that they. It can be hanged. Of course, a print is not. Not necessarily, but artwork can. So that's when we start to decide what fits their home, what fits also their tastes and preferences. Do they like more metal finish, more wood finish? Is it more of a matte finish? An acrylic? Which type of paper, which size? Because, of course, if we are going to hang something on the wall of our room. It will not be the same size as something on the living room, right. Living room. A smaller size will look lost completely. However, in the room it will be perfect, right. Okay, so that will be the pre selection of the pictures and also printed products. And that's when it kicks off into post production, which is all on me, usually two to three weeks. And then the reveal, that's how I call it in, which usually they come over or I go at their house simply to show them the print products and the digitals, of course, that I again show them in a video, right. Because I think that's, that's really nice, right? To just to steam, to brew a little bit more the emotions. And I keep them in that emotional state because otherwise it's really easy to just drop out and not think about it anymore. And what I want for them is to be invested in the whole process with me.
[00:19:23] Speaker A: Right.
For the past couple of years, I have ran a workshop called create your best year yet. It's been at the end of October and it's been so much fun and such a great, great kind of kickstart to the next year. And I'm doing it again this year, but with a twist. This year it will be a one day workshop. You'll get to do all the lessons and everything beforehand and then we'll meet for one day and do the work together.
I am so excited about it. It will be on October 23 and you are, of course, invited. The price is only $97 and you'll get it. Hang out and ask your questions and you can go to engelcolonist.com bestyear to sign up.
So how exactly did you come up with your prices? Did you do calculations? Did you?
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Yep. Okay, so what I have done is used templates that were already done by other photographers for business.
And I added on top of that, my own calculations, meaning, usually, for example, in France, youve got two taxes, so youve got the VAT, same as everywhere else in Europe, right. And then youve got your tax revenue or your revenue tax, which is basically how much you pay depending on how much you make. As simple as that. In my case, as I have another job thats 30% of, not my benefits or my benefit, but the gross.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: The revenue.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: Exactly, the revenue.
And that's what I needed to add. Because, of course, when you take these templates from other photographers, usually they are not in France. In my case, it was an english photographer. So yeah, the UK and France are not necessarily exactly the same. So I needed to add that, and that's where I'm pulling the €300 as a minimum expense for a client to be profitable for me.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: But is that 300? And expenses per client or per month?
[00:21:33] Speaker B: It's a per client. So, in my case, for example, when I say, but I can share with you this file, because I've got a spreadsheet. So, yeah, the amount of clients that I'd like per month to clients with the amount of costs that I have per month. And, yeah, the minimum expense that I need a client to spend with me to be profitable.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Okay. And then you've also taken a look at other pet photographers to check out how they're doing things and their pricing. And what did you find exactly?
[00:22:06] Speaker B: So what I found is that most people are lower than me, the highest price that I've seen back at the time, because now, recently, it has changed quite a bit. But it's like standing at €150, even. It can go up to 175, but it stays below that, €200.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: And what do you get for that?
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Usually you get a session of an hour with five to seven pictures. And, of course, their support, their advice, and, yeah, the gallery, the images that are retouched. So for me, that's quite.
Well, I mean, I suppose in their case, they have their clients and they are happy with that. But to me, I thought that was a little bit low and maybe opening the door for people that are not ready to invest in your work, to abuse you. Because I know I speak on a daily basis with some of these photographers, and they have told me really crazy experiences with clients that are either not willing to sign a contract, either not willing to pay. They have done the session and even delivered the pictures, and there's no money.
That's tricky. Right? It's a little bit difficult to deal with those situations. So I went for a strategy with, let's say, lower volume, but higher quality.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: But do you know the client you want to work with? Do you know what they work with? Do you know how much money they make? Do you know what they care about their values? Do you know all this?
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So I try to, let's say, not draw, but imagine my ideal client in my mind. So, for me, something that has a certain levels of studies, at least a degree, I think sometimes even a master. In my case, so far, that has been the case, people have had both a degree and a master. They are people who work as engineers, as doctors are. So, yeah, they earn good money. Let's say each month they have pets or they are looking to be, or going to be professional for one of their passions. My first client session was with a painter, actually, a friend that wants to become a painter, professional one. And she's doing a. An exposition soon, in one month, actually. And she wanted the pictures to be able to send them over to the city hall so that she could have a, let's say, format flyer displayed all over her city and have people come over with the picture. And she wanted to have, let's say, some professional brand linked to it. So that's why she called me.
[00:25:17] Speaker A: And have you done any actual research? Have you spoken to these people that you know are your right clients? Have you asked them questions? Do you know several of them? So you can check, like, how do you feel about this? Would you pay?
Have you done that kind of stuff?
[00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So I have actually taken the time to do that with the clients I've had so far by sending them a form in which I can collect feedback and tell them, how did you feel about the price? Did you think it was too much before you came into the session? How do you feel about it now?
And also even speaking just informally about it before.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: But have you spoken to people who haven't been your clients?
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Not yet. So I have been trying to collect that feedback indirectly from Instagram, from Facebook, from people all over the Internet. And there's some very, let's say I have this impression that people are very polarized. They are either not spending much and then even a hundred euros is too much, or they are indulging in an experience, and then it can go up to even sometimes €1000 or even more.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: So it's. It's actually quite variable as of today. Yeah. I really need to think, because I'm. I've been trying to imagine where these type of people would go, where they would buy stuff, what they wear on a daily basis. It's mostly brands or.
I don't know. I really need to pinpoint specifically.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: I would probably think more about the actual pets. Maybe they would go to pet exhibitions or something like that, where you should maybe be so you can get to know people. Because the way that you are describing things, I feel like I would be, since you're not getting as many clients as you want. To me, it sounds like you're kind of stuck in the middle because you're explaining that you have competitors who are charging very little, and then you want to kind of work with those close to, like, higher end people. And when you charge as little as I think you charge very little. When you charge that little, then those people aren't going to be interested because they're going to think, like, if I'm going to spend my time on this, going out and getting nice photos of my dog, then I need to trust the process and trust the person. And the price tag says a lot.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: So I would say you probably should try to really elevate your brand and because everything you're describing around it sounds like you're really giving the personal experience, but maybe the price tag kind of pulls it down. So I would work on your kind of like external branding to make sure that it really pulls in the person that you want to work with. Like, what do they want?
Really talk with people that you wish you could work with and see what they think. Not necessarily of your pricing, but of your branding. Because a higher price tag is something that we kind of think of as higher quality.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's interesting.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So if I want to buy something that I really care about, I expect to pay for it. If it's cheap, then I'm going to think I don't want it because it's.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Oh, this is, this is, this has no value, basically.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. So when you are adding a probably a too low price tag, then people that you want to work with are going to think, oh, she probably isn't that good and this isn't something we would value enough. And I'm not just saying that from a branding perspective, I'm also saying that from a long term business perspective because if you're charging down to like 300 per session, which is your minimum, you would need to have, I don't know, like 100 or 200 or 300 clients a year to be able to match your current income, which is insane because you just said that you wanted a higher quality and a more unique, more.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Boutique experience, let's say.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Yeah, more boutique experience. So if you want to have that, then you probably want to aim for a much lower volume and a much higher price tag.
How does that sound and feel?
[00:29:53] Speaker B: It actually feels really good because I know that when I was building my brand, when I was just me in front of my computer and no one else knew that I was going to be Harvard photographer, professionally at least, I really had in mind this.
I'm not sure I should say the word, but let's go ahead and say it. The luxurious experience of pet photography in Paris. I remember I have this friend who has really believed in me since the very beginning. He's a good friend of my husband and he told me, you know what, Elisa? I know you are not going to believe me, but some people pay €6000 for a dog, which is a mix of breeds. And you can tell me that's the worst thing ever because he knows how I feel about breeds and being pure about the breed. But anyway, and he told me, just realize that you can find the client that you need. You just need to believe in it.
If you yourself are already establishing barriers between you and your brand, then the ideal client or potential future client will feel that also.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
Because you're, well, you're a path photographer, which is a niche.
[00:31:20] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: But it's not really that narrow because path that could be with anyone who.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: Has a pet, anything. Absolutely.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Any kind of pet. Anyone who has a pet, any kind of pet owner. And pet owners are very different people. I would say that you need to specialize and niche even further.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Like get really clear on what kind of pet, not necessarily what kind of animal, but what kind of pet owner do you want to work with? What can you say to make that come across really clearly that you are for the pet owner who is not going to like the grocery store and buying just a normal brand of dog food. You probably want to go work with the people who have specialty pet food and go to the dog groomers. And you want those higher end people who really care about their animal, not just really care, because I'm sure that most pet owners really care.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: Everyone will say that for sure. Who go the extra mile with their pets.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: Yes. Who want to spend money. Yeah, maybe they don't have kids, so they spend all their money and kind of resources on their animal instead. Those are your kind of people.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: And to be able to attract those people, then you have to just stop and think like, okay, I know that I want to earn this much, but the people who want to book me, they would be willing to pay ten times that. So why am I offering them a low price? I would need to have a higher price tag on my offer so that they're going to be looking in my direction at all.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And how does my website need to look? How does my branding need to look? Because your photos are great, but your price tag has to match it because if it doesn't, then people won't take you seriously.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: Absolutely. And then you can even undervalue yourself.
It's like last time we were discussing this, maybe you remember that if you are always or frequently offering discounts, that can also be perceived as low value.
[00:33:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, definitely.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Because this is making me think right now of Apple, for example, and their marketing strategy, because we can love them or hate them, but one thing is for sure, they are great. Marketing people are marketing company for sure, and you rarely see them implement any discount, if at all, during the year.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:02] Speaker B: And that's for something they believe in the quality of the product that they are making. And in the end, people buy it.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: And I was actually just going to say that when you don't give discounts and you have a higher price, it says something about your confidence.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: So if you have a higher price, you're going to be perceived as being more confident, people are going to trust you more and then going to be more willing to give you more money. When I started out, my prices were really low. Like, really, really, really low. And my clients didn't trust me. They thought they had to give me like a list of, these are the photos we want of our ceremony and it's like, but I know what I'm doing. You can't just give me this list. That's not how it works.
[00:34:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:42] Speaker A: Frequently I was told, like, oh, this is too expensive. We don't want to pay this. Can we have a discount?
[00:34:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: The higher my price tag got, the less of that I have gotten now. It's never. That's amazing because I have the confidence. So my first wedding was 150 pounds because I was living in the UK, so 150 pounds, my first wedding. And the most recent elopement I booked, that was almost $10,000.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: That's quite something, right?
[00:35:13] Speaker A: It's a big difference.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:14] Speaker A: And when my price has risen, the people who I have booking meetings are like, oh, thank you for considering to work with me versus, like, I don't want to pay €300 for this. Can you give me a like? I mean, the difference is so huge. I'm not saying that it's only the price tag. Of course it's not. But the price tag is a big part of it.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: Is part. Exactly. It's part of the decision factor, for sure. And the ones who say otherwise, I don't think they are realizing the spectrum of the decision here.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And because you can be at that point where you're too expensive for the ones who are not really willing to pay and you're too cheap for the ones who are ready to pay and expect to pay.
[00:35:56] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: And the way that you're explaining your process, how much you put into it and how your people are, I would expect to see a much higher price tag at what you offer.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Exactly. I remember chatting with this photographer, but photography as well. And she told me recently, oh, but people sometimes do not like to pay or do not want to pay here. And I remember I was discussing and mulling this over during a day, and the next day I came over to her and I told her, I don't think people don't want to, bay, it's just maybe that the clients that you are targeting are not necessarily the ones that you're getting.
Easier said than done. For sure.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: It is. It is. But I definitely agree with that. Because in the same city, you'll find people who are not willing to pay and you'll find people who are willing to pay.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:36:56] Speaker A: You'll find people who think that photography is a waste of money and people who think that they'll pay more for that than their car.
[00:37:03] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: It's like, sorry, my dog just jumped up on my chair and she wants to be a part of this.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: It's okay.
Oh, such a cutie.
Yeah. So what I was going to say is that for me, this person was simply just not in line with her clients.
And the problem is, I know some people have asked me, but why don't you do breathers? Why don't you partner with breeders? Well, because, yeah, they are owners of pets and I know a whole lot of them, especially in the husky breed, because I'm so passionate about it. I could speak for hours of huskies. Seriously. But the thing is, usually breeders, I don't think they are part of my target client.
Let's be realistic. I'm not your shoot and prey photographer. I'm not shooting a thousand digitals and putting out galleries out there. I just really want to spend at least ten to 12 hours per client to ensure that they leave hundred percent satisfied from the beginning and that they are reassured every step of the way during the session, before the session, after the session. That for me speaks luxury. Or at least that's how I feel about it.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: And that's so important to keep in mind because you know a lot about who your client is.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: You can tell her that I love.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: Her, maybe that I think she knows that we're talking about her now.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: Of course they know.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: You can know who your dream clients are, who you really want to work with, which you do. But it's also important to know who isn't right for you. And I think you know that as well.
[00:38:54] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: So I think you know a lot of the things, you seem like you have ideas about all this stuff. Sometimes it's just a reminder that you know what you're doing and you have more than you might think. So now you just have to do it.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: It's time to implement it. Yeah. I have been told several times by several photographers, Lisa, you know this. You just have to practice it now. Yeah, just put it to practice and stop thinking. And that, that's my problem. I'm overthinking stuff all the time. It's just exhausting.
[00:39:27] Speaker A: And it's also important to remember, well, don't do the mistake that I made. As I said, I started out with my prices very low, and then I gradually increased them little by little, year by year. And it took probably about six years before I could make a living from it.
[00:39:44] Speaker B: Oh, that's a long time.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: Every single time I increased my prices, I kind of had to start over. I had to get new clients, new referrals, like up everything. So. So don't do that. Increase your prices now right away. Like, just do it. Make sure that you build your brand around that. Make sure that your messaging is talking to the person you want to work with. And then once that's in place, that's when you have to get more focused on marketing.
[00:40:13] Speaker B: Exactly. That's interesting. And I remember when I set my price back then, there was only one photographer that was doing my level, because when I started, I only have had one single price. Today. I have several types because I have outdoor sessions, I have studio sessions, and I have the, what I call the hybrid, which is a mix of both just for people that want the two of the two experiences. And back then I only had one price, which was one session, and it was 290. And I remember there was only one pet photographer, which I'm sure you know of, which is Audrey Bello. She's really well known. And she was the only one having this price. Now it's different. It has evolved. Some of the other pet photographers have joined, but back then, I was really the only one, maybe. And I know she chose that price because she was higher than all the others. But what she was doing back then, even today, it's different. Even with what she's doing in, in Iceland. All the adventure trips that she is doing to Iceland, specifically with people, including the hotel and the trips and everything in there, that's specifically something that she is doing for photographers. And each year I've seen her prices rise. She started off at 2000, and now today I think she's doing it at 5000. So maybe there's something that is reflecting also her confidence in her work on what she can offer others.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: And in the end, yeah, you will always have people tell you that it is too expensive. Well, then in that case, those are not your clients.
[00:41:58] Speaker A: Exactly. That's so important to remember.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: I think we lose so much energy and time, mental energy, specifically worrying about people that are telling us that they are not our clients. Seriously, we just really need to be tough.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: I agree. And we also spend too much time looking at other photographers thinking that they have the answer because they might not know how to price, they might not know how to build a website, and then we look at them and to see how to do things. And that is not the most effective way.
[00:42:35] Speaker B: And from experience, I will also tell you that's something I have learned through my it knowledge because I'm quite a geek as well. So I have all these, these caps that I, that I put on and off. And the thing is, I have worked, for example, in SEO quite a lot with, with Google, with my website, with everything. And I'm ranking quite high. When I search for my just pet photography Paris, I'm ranking quite high compared to photographers that have been there for at least already five or six years.
[00:43:10] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:43:11] Speaker B: And I'm like, how is this possible? It's just because I have worked on it.
It's as simple as that. And there's no magic when someone is succeeding in what they are doing, it's because they are doing things right and in line with their values, with what they think, with of course, their craft, in my case, does photography. But to some other entrepreneurs, that might be true as well and ring true to them. And yeah, it's simply just applying all these small pieces of the puzzle. Easier said than done.
[00:43:50] Speaker A: Again, it is easier said than done, but I think you're onto it and it is a matter of just doing it. And I know that you have to carve out the time, but if you do what we started out talking about, where you set your priorities, then I think things are going to be a lot easier for you. Would start by increasing your prices to a level where it's like you're actually a high end photographer and then seeing is there some kind of changes you need to do on your branding, like everything visual to your messaging, to the way you speak about things. And then I would see, okay, now it's time to get like maybe write blog posts or improve your SEO or the way that your website is laid out or your Instagram. Like, just do it step by step. And I know you want to do everything at once.
Oh, absolutely, start.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: But that's not possible.
[00:44:38] Speaker A: Start with one thing and make a prioritized list so that you don't feel overwhelmed. Yeah. Doing things that isn't going to make any difference to you now.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. What I have already started doing is writing blogs because I think that could also help me bring in people that I would like actually to work with. I have also thought, because I don't know why this conviction. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think the clients that are my ideal clients for my business are not necessarily on social media.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: And that is something that has been nagging at the back of my brain every single day when I post another story or post or whatever it may be, on Instagram, on Facebook. And so far, the result has proven not useless, but let's say, not fruitful enough for me to have clients from that. And maybe it's simply because my clients are not on social media. Maybe my short experience right now, my clients, all of them, have come from people close to me, to my social circle. Maybe what I need to do is pair my, let's say, online strategy with my offline strategy. Going to the vet, for example, and giving them flyers, going to, I don't know, pet shops, for example. And again, discussing with the manager, because I know the manager of the local pet shop here where I live, which could be interesting. And again, not necessarily offer people digitals, but just artwork, because that's what really moves me and what really I feel passionate about because I don't know, I remember when I was a child, my parents, and they still have that, they have pictures printed of myself and my brother, my bigger brother, and they have displayed them on frames that are basically displayed on their desk. And it's still there today.
[00:46:52] Speaker A: Right.
[00:46:53] Speaker B: And we are like three or four years old on those pictures. And each time I see those pictures, despite the quality, despite that, they are not great. They still make me smile.
[00:47:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:05] Speaker B: And I think that emotion, that is something special that only printed products can achieve, because digital, in the end, you forget about it.
I've been doing photography for a bit over two years now, and I have taken pictures. I have not taken a look, not once, and I have completely forgotten about them. And I'm sure most people are that way. We take a ton of pictures per day on our phone.
[00:47:34] Speaker A: I think this is something that's going to be very useful for you to come back to when you are writing out, whether that's captions or text for your website, but really speak to those values, speak to those feelings, because that is what's going to make a difference. But before you get carried away doing that, do the other stuff first and then focus on doing the marketing one thing at a time. But I do think you have something to work on next, and I'm really excited to see how that's gonna change things for you. Maybe at an emotional level more than anything, to see how it does something to your confidence to be actually a high end photographer, both in spirit as well as in pricing.
[00:48:15] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. You know what? We will finish this off with something I've heard, actually not heard, Freddie recently, that your confidence is something you wear and like a dress, for example, that you wear to an evening or a night out.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: I like that.
[00:48:34] Speaker B: And the person was saying something that has really stuck with me.
Each time you feel you lack in confidence, just think of all the times people have complimented your work or you in a way or another and then wear that.
[00:48:50] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:48:52] Speaker B: And I was like, oh, wow, that's powerful.
[00:48:54] Speaker A: It is.
[00:48:55] Speaker B: That really is intense. But it's true. It's really true. Because we all. I don't know why myself.
I mean, I'm always that way and I don't know why. Giving more credits to people that simply do not matter in the end, they really do not matter. It's not that they are stupid. It's not. I don't know. I don't care. I don't have the energy or the mental space to deal with bad vibes anymore in my life.
[00:49:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: I mean, I'm 32 years old. I don't care anymore about childish stuff.
I don't have time. Literally. I am really not paid enough for that. So I don't have time and I wish you well, but just I will. You go your way and I will go mine and we are fine.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:44] Speaker B: So, yeah, let's just wearing our confidence and thinking of the compliments people give us to wear it as a lovely night dress. How does that sound?
[00:49:57] Speaker A: I love that. That's brilliant.
[00:49:59] Speaker B: I love it.
I really thought it was an amazing comparison and metaphor.
[00:50:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And I do think it fits very well with everything we've talked about now because confidence really is at the core to make sure that you're up for doing things, both when it comes to visibility and when it comes to pricing and everything. You need to have that confidence.
[00:50:19] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:50:21] Speaker A: But when that's said, I am sure that the listener would love to know where to find you. So can you share your website and your Instagram so that we can find you there?
[00:50:31] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So my website, it's a little bit long, so stick with me here.
So three ws.com. po like a po p. A w prints like a print dash. Unphotography.com.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: That wasn't so bad.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: That wasn't so bad, was it?
[00:50:53] Speaker A: No. Poor print photography. Okay, that's fine.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: There you go. Paw prints photography, that's my website. And if you'd like to find me, whether it is on Instagram or Facebook, it's very similar, but just with some little touches of personalization here and there. On Instagram, that's pawprints photography, same as before. And dot three p. Because paw prints and photography, they all start with the letter p. Right?
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:51:22] Speaker B: Right? So three p. That's for Instagram and for Facebook, it's paw prints photography by Elisa G. Because that's me.
[00:51:31] Speaker A: Okay, nice.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: I wanted to have something personal needs on each social media. I don't know if that's something that's doable or that's intelligent, but I went with it.
[00:51:42] Speaker A: That's nice. That's nice. I'll be sure to link to those in the show notes as well so they'll be easy to find. And just thank you so much for wanting to do this. It's been so much fun and I hope it was helpful. And I can't wait to see how you get on with it.
[00:51:57] Speaker B: It was really helpful. Thank you very much, ingvel, for your time. And thank you, everyone, for listening to us brumble for about a. Yeah, an hour.
[00:52:06] Speaker A: Okay, bye for now.
[00:52:08] Speaker B: Bye bye. Thank you.
[00:52:11] Speaker A: You just listened to an episode of sustainable photography. Please share this episode with the photographer you care about.
